SENDING IN THE TRUMP ERA.

WHAT DO PEOPLE SEE?

>> THEY SAY IT DOESN'T MATTER WHETHER YOU TREAT HUMAN BEINGS IN THE WAY THE PRESIDENT TREATS OTHER HUMAN BEINGS.

YOU THINK DONALD TRUMP IS PROVIDING MORAL LEADERSHIP FOR OUR COUNTRY?

>> I ABSOLUTELY DO.

>> NO ONE THOUGHT THEY WERE GOING TO GET A CHOIR BOY FROROM DONALDLD TRUMP AS PRESIDENT.YOU.

NOW, "IN PRINCIPLE" WITH MICHAEL GERSON AND AMY HOLMES.

MICHAEL: WELCOME TO "IN PRINCIPLE."

THIS WEEK CHRISTIANITY AND POLITICS.

THEY HAVE ALWAYS BEEN INTERTWINED IN THE U.S.

BUT THE ROLE OF FAVORITE IN LEADERSHIP HAS ONCE AGAIN SHIFTED IT THE TRUMP ERA.

AMY: LATER RALPH REED CHAIRMAN OF THE CONSERVATIVE FAVORITE AND FREEDOM COALITION TELLS US DESPITE PRESIDENT TRUMP'S PERSONAL SCANDALS SUPPORT FOR HIM AMONG EVANGELICALS IS AN ALL TIME HIGH AND KATRINA PIERSON WILL DISCUSS THE PRESIDENT'S PLAN TO WIN THE HEARTS AND SOUPLS OF-- SOULS OF CHRISTIAN FAITHFULS.

MICHAEL: FIRST ANDREW SULLIVAN ON THE RISK OF POLITICIZING FAITH.

THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH US.

ANDREW: THANK YOU FOR HAVING US.

MICHAEL: EVANGELICALS SAY THEY ARE TRADING FOR THEIR AGENDA FROM THE PRESIDENT SUPPORTING HIM BUT THAT IS POLITICS.

HOW DO YOU RESPOND TO THAT TRADE?

ANDREW: WELL, I'M NOT SURE HOW I WOULD RESPOND TO IT BUT I KNOW HOW JESUS RESPONDED TO IT WHICH IS WHAT DOES IT PROFIT A MAN IF HE GAIN THE WHOLE WORLD AND LOSE HIS OWN SOUL.

THERE IS NO UTILITY TAEURPB DARK UTILITYITY IN CHRISTIANITY.

IT IS ABOUT KEEPING ONE'S SOUL AS BEST ONE CAN INTACT FROM THAT KIND OF BARGAIN.

TO UNDERSTAND THE PRINCIPLES INVOLVED IN CHRISTIANITY, WHICH IS NOT TRANSACTIONAL, IT IS NOT POLITICAL.

IT SIS SPIRITUAL AND ETHICAL.

AND ONCE YOU TRADED THAT IN, THERE'S ALMOST NOTHING LEFT BUT POWER, NOTHING LEFT BUT CONTROL OF OTHERS.

AMY: WHAT ABOUT THE CHRISTIAN VOTER WHO WILL SAY THERE IS THE SEPARATION THAT YOU CAN MAKE IN YOUR PUBLIC AND POLITICAL LIFE, BE INFORMED BY VALUES YES BUT YOU ARE TPHOTNOT SURRENDERING YOUR SOUL TO VOTE FOR DONALD TRUMP.

ANDREW: I WOULDN'T SAY YOU ARE SURRENDERING YOUR SOUL TO VOTE FOR DONALD TRUMP AS IT WERE.

I THINK THE CONTINUAL DEMOCRAT THAT THE VALUES THAT HE REPRESENTS ARE IN ANY WAY CONTRARY TO CHRISTIANITY IS PREPOSTEROUS.

AMY: THEY WOULD SAY THERE IS HIS PERSONAL LIFE AND WHAT YOU MIGHT SAY WHICH IS EMPTY OF VALUE AT LEAST IN THE MARITAL CONTEXT.

ANDREW: I MEAN PUBLIC VALUES.

AMY: THEY SAY THEY LIKE HIS VALUES.

ANDREW: YOU CANNOT SUPPORT CHRISTIAN VALUES AND PRIORITIZE THE STRONG AGAINST THE WEAK.

YOU CANNOT PREFER THE PERSON NEXT TO YOU OVER THE STRANGER.

YOU CANNOT EXPEL PEOPLE AND THREATEN.

YOU CANNOT JUSTIFY THE TORTURE OF HUMAN BEINGS.

YOU CANNOT DEFEND THE PERSONAL DEMONIZATION OTHER PEOPLE IN A MOST GROTESQUE AND CRUDE FASHION IMAGINABLE.

YOU CANNOT PARTICIPATE IN THAT.

THESE ARE PUBLIC VALUES, PAGAN VALUES.

THESE ARE ANTI-CHRISTIAN VALUES THAT THIS PERSON IS NOT ONLY INHABIT BUT PROMOTES.

YOU CAN'T DO THAT WITHOUT RENDER RENDERING YOUR OWN PRINCIPLES AND FAVORITE ABSURD.

MICHAEL: WHAT MESSAGES ARE CHRISTIANS SENDING IN THE TRUMP ERA?

WHAT ARE PEOPLE SEEING?

ANDREW: THEY ARE SAYING IT DOESN'T MATTER WHETHER YOU TREAT HUMAN BEINGS IN THE WAY THE PRESIDENT TREATS OTHER HUMAN BEINGS.

IT DOESN'T MATTER IF UYOU DELIGHT IN VIOLENCE AGAINST OTHERS.

IT DOESN'T MATTER IF UYOU TREAT PEOPLE OF A DIFFERENT RACE IN A SORT OF ALMOST SYSTEMATICALLY REPELLANT WAY.

IT DOES NOT MATTER IF YOU TREAT HALF OF HUMAN KIND AS OBJECTS TO BE USED AND DISCARDED.

IT CAN'T MATTER IF THE ONLY THING THAT GOVERNS YOUR LIFE IS THE WORSHIP OF MONEY OR POWER OR FAME.

THESE DO MATTER.

AMY: SO MANY CHRISTIANS SAY WE WERE NOT VOTING FOR A SAINT.

WE WERE VOTING FOR A BODYGUARD.

WE WERE VOTING FOR SOMEONE WHEN IT COMES TO PUBLIC POLICY THAT VERY MUCH REFLECTS AND DEFENDS CHRISTIAN VALUES.

ANDREW: WELL, I THINK THAT YOU COULD SAY SOME CHRISTIAN VALUES ARE PROTECTED IN THAT BARGAIN.

AT THE SAME TIME, SO MANY MORE SUBSTANTIAL CORE CHRISTIAN BELIEFS ARE BEING SACRIFICED IN COZYING UP TO AND SUPPORTING THIS MAN AND WHAT HE REPRESENTS.

I DON'T THINK THAT IS A TRADEOFF.

A TRADEOFF, THE CHRISTIANS ARE SUPPOSED TO MAKE ARE, I THINK WE ARE ASKED TO RESIST THAT TRADEOFF.

MICHAEL: WHAT DO YOU THINK EVANGELICALS ARE MISSING ABOUT THEIR OWN FAITH IN ALL OF THIS?

ANDREW: THAT IT EXISTS BEYOND POLITICS.

EVERYONE IN THEIR LIVES HAS THIS CHOICE SOMETIMES.

ARE YOU IN FAVOR OF TRUTH OR ARE YOU IN FAVOR OF POWER?

THEY OFTEN CONFLICT.

IT SEEMS TO ME A CHRISTIAN DUTY TO ALWAYS TAKE THE SIDE OF TRUTH IN THAT CONTEXT, NOT POWER.

POWER ALSO CORRUPTS.

THERE'S THE FAMOUS MOMENT WHEN JESUS IS PRESENTED BY THE DEVIL WITH COMPLETE POWER AND HE SAYS NO.

HE HAD THE POWER NOT TO BE CRUCIFIED IF HE HAD ONLY SPOKEN UP, IF HE HAD ONLY DEFENDED HIMSELF.

HE SAID NO.

THERE'S NOTHING IN THE GOSPELS, I BELIEVE, THAT IS REALLY ABOUT CHRISTIANS DOING IT SEEK AND CONTROL ORIOLES.

IT IS ALL ABOUT -- CONTROL OTHERS.

IT IS ACCEPTING OTHERS AND DOING ONE'S BEST TO BE AS GOOD AS ONE CAN AND BE AS CLOSE TO CHRIST AS ONE CAN.

THAT IS A DIFFERENT DYNAMIC THAN THE UTILITARIAN POLICY GETTING AND VOTE GETTING POLITICAL PROCESS TO WHICH I THINK SADLY EVANGELICALS HAVE SURRENDERED THEMSELVES.

IT IS TERRIBLE WITNESS TO WHAT FAITH CAN BE.

YOU LOSE YOUR SOUL IN THAT PROCESS IF YOU ARE NOT CAREFUL.

I'M NOT SAYING THAT WE CAN ALL LIVE COMPLETELY PURIST LIVES.

AMY: BUT LET'S THINK ABOUT HOW EVERY PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE ON BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE.

HILLARY CLINTON, PRESIDENT OBAMA, MAYBE NOT DONALD TRUMP SO MUCH BUT PREVIOUS PRESIDENTS HAVE SAID MY CHRISTIAN FAITH IS BORN HOW I CONDUCT MYSELF IN PUBLIC LIFE.

ANDREW: THAT IS A DIFFERENT THING.

AMY: PRESIDENT OBAMA SAID IN 2008 THAT HIS CHRISTIAN FAVORITE TOLD HIM THAT MARRIAGE IS A SACK RAMENT BETWEEN A MAN AND WOMAN.

HE CHANGED THAT OVERTIME OR MAYBE HE CHANGED HIS POLICY POSITION.

BUT IT SEEMS ALMOST ALL POLITICAL LEADERS EXPLICITLY SAY BEING A CHRISTIAN ENVELOPESINFORMS WHO I AM AS A POLITICIAN.

ANDREW: LET ME TAKE THAT QUESTION ABOUT MARRIAGE.

I THINK I CAN SAY AS A SACRAMENT MARRIAGE HAS ALWAYS BEEN A JOINING OF MAN AND A WOMAN.

AS A CIVIL RIGHT IN A SECULAR SET IT CAN ALSO MEAN BETWEEN ONE MAN AND ANOTHER MAN.

MICHAEL: NOT LONG AGO SOME EVANGELICAL LEADERS ISSUED THE NASHVILLE STATEMENT THAT OPPOSED GAY MARRIAGE AND TALKED ABOUT HOME LOGICAL IMMORALITY.

WHAT DO THEY NOT UNDERSTAND ABOUT THE EXPERIENCE OF GAY CHRISTIANS?

ANDREW: THE WAY WE ARE CONSTRUCTED AND GOD KNOWS WHY WE'RE CONSTRUCTED THIS WAY BUT WE ARE, IS REALITY.

IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN REALITY.

IT IS PART OF WHO WE ARE.

THERE IS NO WAY THAT THIS CAN BE CHANGED OR ABOLISH EDED.

AND THAT GOD LOVES US, TOO.

THAT RESPECT FOR THE INDIVIDUAL CONSCIENCE AND THAT UNDERSTANDING THAT MANY GAY PEOPLE WANT TO LIVE LIVES IN A CHRISTIAN CONTEXT THAT DO NOT -- WANT TO ABIDE BY EVERYTHING REALLY THAT JESUS ASKS US TO ABIDE BY.

BUT THAT IS A REAL STRUGGLE.

IT IS A GREAT TESTAMENT, IT SEEMS TO ME -- MICHAEL: IT IS A STRUGGLE FOR EVERYONE BY THE WAY.

ANDREW: OF COURSE.

TO SINGLE OUT A PARTICULAR ISSUE WHICH IS ONLY -- SEX ESSENTIALLY -- WHICH IS A TINY PART OF PEOPLE'S LIVES IS TO REDUCE PEOPLE TO SOMETHING THAT THEY ARE NOT.

IT IS TO MISUNDERSTAND AND SOMEWHAT DENY THEM THEIR HUMANITY.

MICHAEL: WITHOUT YOUR CHRISTIAN FAVORITE WHAT WOULD BE MISSING IN YOUR LIFE?

ANDREW: WELL, HOPE IS ONE THING.

I LIVED A LIFE WHERE AT ONE POINT I WAS SURROUNDED BY MY YOUNG FRIENDS WHO WERE ALL DYING AND THEY DID DIE IN THE AIDS EPIDEMIC AND IT WAS SO DARK, SO DARK, AND THERE WAS A POINT IN THAT PROCESS WHEN I TRULY BROKE DOWN IN DESPAIR ABOUT THE UNFAIRNESS OF IT ALL.

I REMEMBER THAT MOMENT BECAUSE IT WAS LIKE 15 MINUTES, AND I REMEMBER THE 15 MINUTES IN WHICH I REALLY DIDN'T BELIEVE GOD EXISTED.

AND I CAN'T EXPLAIN WHY AFTER THE 15 MINUTES I FELT MYSELF BEING HELPED UP, RE ASSUREDASSURED, LIFTED.

AND IT WAS NOT MY OWN DOING.

I THINK THAT IS WHAT MY FAITH GIVES ME.

THERE ARE SOME POINTS WHEN GOD DOES INTERVENE WHEN SOMETHING BEYOND YOUR OWN UNDERSTANDING SOMEHOW LIFTS YOU UP AND ENABLES YOU TO GO FORWARD.

MICHAEL: THANK UYOU FOR SHARING WITH US.

WE APPRECIATE IT.

AMY: THANK YOU SO MUCH.

ANDREW: YOU ARE WELCOME.

AMY: IN A PUGH SURVEY WHEN CHRISTIANS WERE ASKED IF THEY APPROVE OR DISAPPROVE THE WAY PRESIDENT TRUMP IS HANDLING HIS JOB 78% WHEAT EVANGELICAL PROTESTANTS APPROVED OF HIS PERFORMANCE BY FAR.

48% OF WHITE MAN LINE PROTESTANTS SAY THEY APPROVE AND AMONG BLACK PROTESTANTS 9% APPROVE.

AMONG CATHOLICS JUST OVER 35% GIVE THE PRESIDENT THEIR STAMP OF APPROVAL.

MICHAEL: HERE TO TELL US ABOUT HOW CHRISTIANITY REMAINS A POTENT POLITICAL FORCE IS RALPH REED.

HE MOBILIZED EVANGELICALS AND OTHER RELIGIOUS CONSERVATIVES TO SECURE TWO WINS FOR GEORGE W. BUSH AND HE IS CENTRAL TO PRESIDENT TRUMP'S RELIGIOUS OUTREACH.

THANK YOU FOR JOIN US.

RALPH: YOU BET.

GOOD TO BE HERE WITH BOTH OF YOU.

MICHAEL: WE HAVE WORKED AROUND THESE ISSUES OF RELIGION AND POLITICS WITH EVANGELICALS OVER 20 YEARS.

RALPH: LONGER THAN THAT.

MICHAEL: I WANT TO REMIND YOU OF SOMETHING YOU SAID IN 1998.

YOU SAID CHARACTER MATTERS AND THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE HUNGRY FOR THAT MESSAGE.

WHAT HAS CHANGED FROM THEN TO NOW?

RALPH: I DON'T THINK ANYTHING HAS CHANGED.

A COUPLE OF THINGS.

NUMBER ONE, I THINK TO THE EXTENT THAT CHARACTER WAS ON THE BALLOT IN THE MOST RECENT ELECTION THERE WAS NO QUESTION ABOUT THE ASSESSMENT THAT THE VOTERS MADE.

AMY: WAS CHARACTER ON THE BALLOT THE LAST ELECTION?

RALPH: I THINK IT ALWAYS IS.

SOMETIMES MORE, SOMETIMES LEVELS.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE EXIT POLLS, MIKE, 81% OF THE VOTERS INCLUDING A MAJORITY OF DEMOCRATS SAID THAT THEY DID NOT CONSIDER HILLARY CLINTON TO BE HONEST OR TRUSTWORTHY.

MICHAEL: I UNDERSTAND THE BINARY CHOICE EVANGELICALS FACED WITH HILLARY CLINTON BUT WE DON'T FACE THAT ANY MORE.

FRANKLIN ROOSEVELT TALKED ABOUT THAT OFFICE AS PREEMINENTLY A PLACE OF MORAL LEARN.

DO YOU THINK DONALD TRUMP IS PROVIDING MORAL LEADERSHIP FOR OUR COUNTRY?

RALPH: I THINK WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THE ISSUES I'M TALKING ABOUT IN PUBLIC POLICY I ABSOLUTELY DO.

IF YOU GO BACK, REGARDLESS OF HOW ONE FEELS ABOUT PRESIDENT TRUMP POLITICALLY AND THERE IS A DIVERSITY OF VIEWS ON THAT, IF YOU READ THE SENTENCE OF HIS REMARKS WHEN HE ANNOUNCED THE MOVING OF U.S. EMBASSY FROM TEL AVIV TO JERUSALEM AND WHEN HE ANNOUNCED THAT THE UNITED STATES WAS WITHDRAWING FROM THE IRAN NUCLEAR DEAL, IF I PUT ANYBODY ELSE'S NAME OTHER THAN HIS ON THOSE STATEMENTS, I WOULD THINK IN OUR COMMUNITY, MEANING THE EFFICIENTVANGELICAL PEOPLE WOULD UNIVERSALLY SAY THIS IS SOMETHING WHO SPOKE WITH MORAL CLARITY AND SHOWED COURAGE AND LEADERSHIP AND THIS WAS SOMEBODY WHO DID THE RIGHT THING FOR ONE REASON AND ONE REASON ONLY AND THAT WAS BECAUSE IT WAS THE RIGHT THING TO DO.

WE MAY NOT AGREE WITH HIM ON EVERYTHING HE DOES.

DOES HE SAY OR DO THINGS I WISH HE WOULDN'T SAY OR DO?

HE DOES.

AMY: SHOULDN'T THAT BE A PROBLEM JUST THE WAY YOU DEFINED IT IN YOUR BACK IN 1996 THAT PERSONAL ATTACKS, THIS KIND OF UGLINESS, IT DIMINISHES OFFICE AND DIMINISHES IT WHETHER IT IS COMING EXTERNALLY OR THE MAN BEHIND THE OVAL OFFICE DESK, DON'T YOU THINK?

RALPH: I THINK WE CAN ALL DO BETTER.

I CAN ONLY SPEAK WITH WHAT I SAW IN 2016 AND I'M NOT HAPPY BUT IT BUT THIS IS WHAT I SAW.

I SAW THE GRASSROOTS OF A PARTY ABOUT HALF WERE EVANGELICAL CHRISTIANS WE SHOULD POINT OUT.

AMY: 26% OF THE ELECT -- ELECTORATE.

RALPH: IN MIDTERM IT WILL BE CLOSER TO 30% AND THEY HAVE WATCHED TWO SUCCESSIVE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTIONS IN 2008 AND 2012 AGAINST A CANDIDATE THAT THAT, BARACK OBAMA, THAT THEY CONSIDERED TO BE ANATHEMA TO EVERYTHING THEY BELIEVED IN, WHO THEY VIEWED AS GENTLEMAN LOSERS.

THEY WERE POLITE, THEY WERE CLASSY, AND THEY LOST.

AND I THINK THEY WANTED A STREET FIGHTER.

AND I THINK DONALD TRUMP'S SELECTION OF MIKE PENCE WAS DEEPLY REVEALING OF HIS GOVERNING PRIORITIES.

AMY: HOLD ON.

RALPH: I THINK THAT SHOULD COUNT.

AMY: IT CAN BE DEEPLY REVEALING OF HIS POLITICAL STRATEGY TO SHORE UP THE EVANGELICAL VOTE.

RALPH: COULD HAVE BEEN BUT BASED ON HOW HE DID IN THE PRIMARIES THAT IS A HARD CASE TO MAKE.

AMY: AS AN OUTSIDER OF THE DISCUSSION OF THE EVANGELICAL VOTE, I'M NOT A PERSON OF FAVORITE BUT I WATCH.

WHAT DO YOU SAY TO ME OR OTHER CRITICS WHO SAY I FEEL LIKE YOU HAVE DONE A 180 FROM THE 1990'S IT WAS ABOUT MORAL LISTEN -- MORAL LISTEN, VALUES, FOCUS ON A FAMILY.

NOW WE ARE HERE WITH DONALD TRUMP THREE TIMES MARRIED DOING PAVE PAYOFFS, SCANDAL AFTER SCANDAL AND SOUNDS LIKE THERE IS A LOT OF DEFLECTION.

RALPH: NOT TRUE.

IT COULDN'T BE LESS TRUE.

LET ME MAKE THE INDICATION.

FIRST OF ALL, THERE IS A NOTION ABOUT EVANGELICALS AND OTHER PEOPLE OF FAITH THAT THEY ARE DRIVEN PRIMARILY BY IDENTITY POLITICS.

LET'S ELECT THE PERSON MOST LIKE ME.

BELIEVES IN GOD THE WAY I DO, HAS LIVED A LIFE LIKE I HAVE ASPIRED TO LIVE.

SIMPLY NOT TRUE.

AMY: CLEARLY NOT THIS ELECTION.

RALPH: NOT ANY ELECTION SINCE THIS BROKE UPON THE BEACHES OF OUR POLITICAL SYSTEM IN THE LATE 1970'S.

RATHER AT THE VOTED AGAINST A SOUTHERN BAPTIST, A SELF-PROCEED PESTING BORN AGAIN EVANGELICAL SUN -- SUNDAY SCHOOL TEACHER TO ELECT THE FIRST DIVORCE MAN, RONALD REAGAN WHO WHEN HE WAS ASKED IF HE WAS BORN AGAIN SAID WE DON'T USE THAT TERM IN MY CHURCH.

NOW, HE WAS SOMEBODY WHO SHARED THEIR POLICY VIEWS AND SHARED THEIR VALUES, AND THAT WAS A LOT MORE IMPORTANT TO THESE VOTERS THAN WHETHER OR NOT HE WORSHIPED THE WAY THEY WORSHIPED.

READ THE BIBLE THE WAY HE HAD DID.

MICHAEL: DOESN'T THAT MAKE THEM ONE INTEREST GROUP AMONG MANY AGAINST A PROPHETIC VOICE OF CONSCIENCE?

RALPH: I'M NOT SURE I WOULD AGREE WITH THAT BECAUSE WITHIN THAT COMMUNITY THERE ARE PROPHETIC VOICES.

I'M TALKING ABOUT HOW THEY ACT IN THEIR CAPACITY AS CITIZENS AND VOTERS.

SO I THINK IT IS PERFECTLY APPROPRIATE FOR CHRISTIANS WHO, AFTER ALL, ARE AMERICANS, TO EXERCISE THE SAME RIGHT THAT EVERYONE ELSE DOES TO ORGANIZE THEMSELVES, TO LOBBY ON BEHALF OF THE ISSUES AND POLICIES THAT THEY CARE DEEPLY ABOUT AND VOTER CANDIDATES TEIXEIRA -- THOSE.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE CONFIRMATION AND NOMINATION OF NEIL GORSUCH YOU SEE THE CONGRESSIONAL REVIEW ACT THAT FOR THE FOR THE IN THE MEDICAID PROGRAM ALLOWS STATES IT DEFUNDS PLANNED PARENTHOOD AND YOU LOOK AT THE SUPPORT FOR REPEAL OF JOHNSON AMENDMENT THAT PROHIBITS CHURCHES FROM SPEAKING OUT POLITICALLY I BELIEVE IN VIOLATION OF THEIR FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS.

MICHAEL: I UNDERSTAND THEY ARE BEGINNING THINGS BUT AROUNDEN'T THEY LOSING THINGS PARTICULARLY PEOPLE OF COLOR AND YOUNG PEOPLE AND THEIR REACTION NOW TO THIS ALLIANCE WITH TRUMP?

AREN'T THEY LOSING SOMETHING AS WELL?

RALPH: I THINK IF YOU LOOK AT THE NUMBERS IN THOSE COMMUNITIES AND HOW THOSE COMMUNITIES, MILLENNIALS, AFRICAN-AMERICANS, HISPANICS, HOW THEY VIEWED US PRIOR TO THE 2016 ELECTION, I THINK THAT WAS ALREADY THERE.

I THINK WE HAVE A LOT OF WORK TO DO IN THOSE COMMUNITIES.

MICHAEL: HASN'T ONE OF HIS ORGANICING PRINCIPLES TO PROVOKE RESENTMENT OF MIGRANTS AND REFUGEES AND MUSLIMS?

IS HE PLAYING ONE GROUP OFF AGAINST THE OTHER AND HOW IS THAT CONSISTENT WITH THE CHRISTIAN SOCIAL ETHIC?

RALPH: I THINK THERE WERE CERTAINLY CASES HE SAID THINGS AND THOSE SETTINGS THAT I PREFER HE NOT SAY.

AMY: LIKE WHAT?

RALPH: WELL, SOME OF THE -- MICHAEL: CHARLOTTESVILLE.

RALPH: SOME OF THE RHETORIC THAT MIKE IS REFERRING TO.

AND I WOULD TELL YOU TO THE EXTENT I AND OTHER EVANGELICALS WHO ARE FRIENDS HAVE HAD A CHANCE TO TALK TO HIM ABOUT THOSE THINGS WE HAVE SHARED OUR VIEWS.

AND I CAN TELL YOU THIS RIGHT NOW.

WE SHARED THEM WITH THE BARK OFF AND LOVE BUT IT IS TOUGH LOVE.

AMY: WHAT IS HIS REACTION?

RALPH: IN MY CASE HE LISTENS.

I DON'T FEEL AT LIBERTY AND I DON'T THINK IT IS APPROPRIATE FOR ME TO SHARE THOSE PRIVATE CONVERSATIONS.

BUT I CAN TELL YOU THIS.

ON THE DACA ISSUE, THE ISSUE OF WHAT TO DO WITH THE YOUNG PEOPLE HAD WERE BROUGHT HERE ILLEGALLY THROUGH NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN, NOT JUST FROM MEXICO BUT FROM OTHER COUNTRIES, MY ORGANIZATION AND OTHER FAITH BASED ORGANIZATIONS ARE WORKED HARD FOR A SOLUTION FOR THOSE YOUNG PEOPLE.

WE THINK THEY CAN CONTRIBUTE TO OUR COUNTRY AND WE DON'T THINK THAT THEY SHOULD BE PUNISHED BECAUSE THEIR PARENTS VIOLATED THE LAW.

MICHAEL: GOING INTO 2020 WHAT ARE ISSUES IMPORTANT TO EVANGELICALS?

RALPH: I WOULD SAY 2018 AND 2020 BECAUSE WE HAVE AN IMPORTANT MIDTERM ELECTION COMING UP.

I THINK THE ECONOMY AND JOBS IS ALWAYS IMPORTANT AND IT IS IMPORTANT TO PEOPLE OF FAITH.

DEPENDING ON WHAT HAPPENS IN THE MIDDLE EAST I EXPECT ECONOMY AND NATIONAL SECURITY TO BE AT THE TOP.

MICHAEL: THANK YOU FOR JOINING US FOR AN INTERESTING DISCUSSION.

AMY: FROM VALUES TO VOTES TRUST SENIOR ADVISOR KATRINA PIERSON TELLS US WHAT ISSUES ARE MOST IMPORTANT TO VOTERS NOW.

WELCOME TO "IN PRINCIPLE."

MICHAEL: HOW DOES HE REFORM THE COALITION THAT WON LAST TIME?

KATRINA: THE PREVIOUS SLOGAN WAS MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN AND GOING IN 2020 WILL BE KEEP AMERICA GREAT.

WE ARE AT FULL EMPLOYMENT.

900,000 HAVE REENTERED THE WORKFORCE.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE WHO LOST HOPE IN THE PREVIOUS ADMINISTRATION NOW GETTING BACK INTO THE WORK FORMS.

THAT IS A HUGE OPTIMISTIC LOOK FOR THE FUTURE.

MICHAEL: THERE ARE SOME GROUPS, EVANGELICALS HAVE BEEN LOYAL BUT LIKE WHITE WOMEN WHERE THERE SEEM TO BE SERIOUS PROBLEMS.

AMY: REAL PROBLEMS.

GALLUP RELEASED A POLL THIS YEAR THAT DONALD TRUMP'S GREATEST SLIPPAGE ARE AMONG WHITE WOMEN IN THE RUST BELT AND HE CAN'T LOSE THEM.

MICHAEL: HOW DOES HE GET THEM BACK?

KATRINA: THAT IS A SNAPSHOT IN TIME BUTS BEEN ABLE TO OVERCOME THAT BECAUSE WHEN IT COMES TO THE BALLOT BOX MAYBE NOT JUNE OR JULY BUT THEY ARE LOOKING AT THEIR POCKETBOOKS AND FAMILIES.

SO WE ARE TALKING ABOUT TRUMP AND THE EVANGELICAL VOTE AND ALSO CHARACTER.

I'M SURE YOU WILL REMEMBER IN THE 1990'S THAT CONSERVATIVES USED TO SAY CHARACTER COUNTS WHEN BILL CLINTON WAS IN THE OVAL OFFICE.

HOW HAS THAT CHANGED?

I DON'T THINK IT HAS CHANGED.

IT IS A GREAT OBSERVATION A LOT OF PEOPLE LOOK AT CONSIDERING THE PRESIDENT WON A LARGE AMOUNT OF EVANGELICAL VOTE BUT THERE IS PRINCIPLE THAT MATTERS AND A LOT OF CHRISTIANS AND EVANGELICALS WILL TELL YOU TODAY THEY WERE NOT REALLY LOOKING FOR A PASTOR OR A FATHER FIGURE.

THEY WERE LOOKING FOR A COMMANDER IN CHIEF, THEIR DAVID TO GO UP AGAINST THE GOLIATH.

AMY: WOULD YOU SAY IT IS FAIR THAT THE ISSUE OF CHARACTER WAS SET ASIDE AND 49% WHITE EVANGELICALS SAID THEY THOUGHT DONALD TRUMP WAS A MAN OF LOW CHARACTER?

KATRINA: NO ONE THOUGHT THEY WERE GOING TO GET A CHOIR BOY IN DONALD TRUMP AS PRESIDENT.

NO ONE ASSUMED THAT AT ALL.

HE'S HAD A PUBLIC PERSONA FOR 40 YEARS.

BUT I DO THINK PEOPLE WERE EXPECTING HIM TO BE THAT PERSON OUTSIDE THE ESTABLISHMENT, OUTSIDE OF WASHINGTON THAT WAS GOING IT KEEP HIS PROMISES AND THAT IS WHAT HE IS DOING.

I HAVE ALWAYS SAID WHAT YOU SEE IS WHAT YOU GET WITH DONALD TRUMP.

HE IS NOT SOMEONE THAT IS GOING TO CHANGE HIS DEMEANOR OR HIS APPROACH.

HE IS WHO HE IS AND THAT'S WHAT MAKES HIM SO APPEALING TO OTHERS.

AMY: IT ALSO HURTS HIM.

SEE THAT OVER AND OVER I WISH HE DIDN'T TWEET SO MUCH.

I WISH HE WAS A LITTLE LESS RAM BUNK SHUS OR FLAMBOYANT.

KATRINA: YOU ARE RIGHT BUT I WOULD ARGUE WITHOUT THE BULL IN A CHINA SHOP MENTALITY WOULD HE HAVE HAD THE SUCCESSES HE HAS HAD.

AMY: HE'S BROUGHT A LOT OF CRITICISM ON HIMSELF I THINK PEOPLE WOULD SAY.

KATRINA: I WOULD SAY THAT IS TO MY POINT HIM BEING AUTHENTIC.

HE JUST SIMPLY DEFENSES HIMSELF REGARDLESS AND THAT TOO IS ANOTHER REASON WHY SO MANY PEOPLE SUPPORT HIM BECAUSE LIKE SO MANY REPUBLICANS IN THE PAST THEY GET AFRAID TO RESPOND AND DEFEND THEMSELVES.

MICHAEL: THANK YOU FOR TALKING WITH US.

THAT'S IT FOR "IN PRINCIPLE."

AMY: DON'T FORGET TO CHECK OUT MORE "IN PRINCIPLE" ONLINE OR FOLLOW US ON SOCIAL MEDIA.

UNTIL NEXT TIME I'M AMY HOLMES.

MICHAEL: I'M MICHAEL GERSON.

THIS IS OUR LAST SHOW FOR A WHILE.

LETS KNOW WHAT YOU THINK AND THANKS FOR WATCHING.

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