♪♪ >> CATHY: MORE BAD NEWS FOR DOWNTOWN ST. PAUL THIS WEEK.

LUNDS AND BYERLYS ANNOUNCED THEY WILL PERMANENTLY CLOSE LATER THIS MONTH.

AND COMMERCIAL TENANTS WERE GIVEN 48 HOURS TO VACATE THE ALLIANCE BANK CENTER BUILDING, THOUGH THAT DEADLINE HAS NOW BEEN EXTENDED.

WE'VE BEEN FOLLOWING THE PLIGHT OF POST-COVID DOWNTOWN ST. PAUL WITH PIONEER PRESS REPORTER FRED MELO.

AND YOU ARE BACK.

>> I'M BACK.

>> Cathy: THERE'S A LOT TO TALK ABOUT.

>> THERE IS.

>> Cathy: I'M WONDERING HERE, NOW, WE HAD THIS MADISON EQUITIES.

>> YEAH.

>> Cathy: IT'S A COMPANY THAT OWNS A LOT OF THE MAJOR PROPERTIES IN DOWNTOWN St. PAUL.

THE OWNER DIED.

RIGHT?

>> YEAH.

>> Cathy: SO THE SURVIVING -- I THINK THE SPOUSE WANTS TO PUT UP ALL THE PROPERTIES AND THIS HAS JUST BEEN A BIG MESS.

MY QUESTION, I GUESS, FRED, SHOULDN'T THE CITY HAVE KIND OF FIGURED -- SHOULD THEY HAVE KEPT BETTER TRACK AS TO WHAT WAS GOING ON?

>> THAT'S CERTAINLY A CRITICISM THAT COMES UP, YOU KNOW, OVER AND OVER.

IT'S TOUGH, I THINK, WHEN YOU'RE DEALING WITH THE PRIVATE SECTOR, THE MAYOR CAN'T JUST SAY, HERE'S WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO DO WITH THE U.S. BANK CENTER, THE ALLIANCE BANK CENTER, AND THE LOWRY APARTMENTS.

AT THE SAME TIME, SOME OF THESE APARTMENTS WERE DIRECTLY ACROSS FROM CITY HALL, AND THEY WERE DETERIORATING.

YOU HAVE THE DEPARTMENT OF SAFETY AND INSPECTIONS, THAT'S THEIR JOB TO KIND OF CHECK ON THESE APARTMENTS.

YOU KNOW, THERE WERE PROBABLY THINGS THAT WERE NOWN BEHIND CLOSED DOORS THAT WEREN'T NECESSARILY ADVERTISED TO THE PUBLIC.

AT THE END OF THE DAY, IT'S PRIVATE PROPERTY.

IT'S REALLY THE PRIVATE PROPERTY OWNERS' RESPONSIBILITY TO TAKE CARE OF IT.

SHE'S COLLECTING THE RENTS.

>> Eric: HOW DOES THE ROAD BACK BEGIN?

WHERE DO THEY START?

>> SURE.

WELL, THERE'S THIS PUBLIC/PRIVATE PARTNERSHIP BETWEEN SECURIAN, YOU KNOW, ECOLAB, THE CITY HALL, AND THEY JUST -- IT'S CALLED THE DOWNTOWN ALLIANCE, THEY JUST HIRED A GUY WHO'S OUT OF BOSTON BE, OUT OF NEW YORK -- BOSTON, OUT OF NEW YORK, A VETERAN OF REDEVELOPMENT AUTHORITIES.

ONE OF THE THINGS HE'S GOING TO HAVE TO LOOK AT IS WHAT BUILDINGS DO WE KEEP, WHAT BUILDINGS DO WE SAVE, WHICH ONES DO WE REPOSITION, TURN THEM FROM OFFICE BUILDINGS TO RESIDENTIAL BUILDINGS, WHICH ONES DO WE DEMOLISH, AND NOT EVERY BUILDING IS A GOOD FIT FOR CONVERSION.

>> Eric: WOULD IT HELP IF THE STATE AND THE FEDS, TO THE EXTENT THEY CAN, ORDER THEIR EMPLOYEES BACK TO WORK DOWNTOWN?

>> IT WOULD ABSOLUTELY HELP.

>> Eric: WHY HASN'T THAT BEEN AN APPROACH?

>> THEY'D ALL QUIT, T'S VERY HARD IN A SHORT LABOR MARKET, WITH THE SHORTAGE WE HAVE, TO HANG ONTO TALENT.

I THINK THERE'S BEEN COVERAGE OF THE STATE CANNABIS OFFICE, TOLD EVERYONE TO COME IN AND A BUNCH OF THEM ALL QUIT IMMEDIATELY.

AND THAT ADDED TO THE DELAY.

SO, YEAH, I MEAN, IT'S GOING TO BE TOUGH.

BUT RIGHT NOW THERE'S STATE EMPLOYEES THAT COME TO THEIR OFFICE ONCE EVERY SIX MONTHS.

I MEAN, THEY COULD OBVIOUSLY SAY, HEY, COME BACK AT LEAST TWICE A WEEK, THREE TIMES A WEEK.

THE MET COUNCIL, RAMSEY COUNTY, CITY OF St. PAUL, THEY'RE ALL VERY CAGEY, A LITTLE BIT NERVOUS, ESPECIALLY DEALING WITH UNIONS.

BUT THEY DON'T WANT TO LOSE THAT TALENT.

>> Cathy: SAY, I WONDER, SO I TOOK A TRIP FROM MPR THROUGH THE SKYWAY, TRIED TO GET TO THE St. PAUL HOTEL BY THE SKYWAY, DESOLATE TO SAY THE LEAST.

>> YOU POOR THING.

>> Cathy: I FOUND MY WAY THROUGH BUT IT WAS DESOLATE.

I'M WONDERING WITH THE ALLIANCE BANK BUILDING, AS IT GOES UNDER, AND AS YOU SAY, IF YOU LOOK AT WHICH BUILDINGS MAYBE SHOULD BE TORN DOWN, WHAT HAPPENS TO THE SKYWAY SYSTEM, SERIOUSLY?

>> YEAH, THERE WAS AN ANNOUNCEMENT JUST TODAY FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF SAFETY AND INSPECTIONS THAT, YOU KNOW, SKYWAY, THROUGH THE ALLIANCE BANK WILL PROBABLY START CLOSING, 9:00 P.M., MAYBE CLOSE ENTIRELY ON WEEKENDS, THAT IT'S JUST -- MADISON EQUITIES HAS LREADY PULLED ITS STAFF, SECURITIER STAFF.

THEY HAVE A PARKING RAMP WITH NO ATTENDEES, THE GATE'S JUST OPEN, YOU CAN PARK THERE AT YOUR OWN RISK.

SO, IT'S NOT LOOKING GOOD.

IT'S A DESOLATE BUILDING.

>> Eric: CRIME AND SORT OF QUALITY-OF-LIFE STUFF, HOW'S THAT OING?

>> Cathy: MADISON EQUITIES OWNER SAID THAT WAS ONE OF THE REASONS -- OKAY, WELL, I'M JUST SAYING.

>> SURE.

THEY'RE THE BIGGEST PROPERTY OWNER DOWNTOWN.

CRIME'S GOTTEN BETTERRER OVER THE PAST YEAR, THERE'S STILL INCIDENTS, OF COURSE.

BUT EVEN THE LIGHT RAIL'S LOOKING BETTER.

THERE'S ALL KINDS OF -- THERE'S ALWAYS GOING TO BE ISSUES IN DOWNTOWN WHERE YOU HAVE FEWER EYES ON THE STREET.

BUT I WAS AT A BUILDING OPENING JUST THIS WEEK ON BROADWAY BEHIND CHS FIELD, YOU KNOW, 130 NEW UNITS COMING ONLINE, RESIDENTIAL IS STILL A STRONG SPOT FOR DOWNTOWN, IT'S REALLY THAT COMMERCIAL OFFICE THAT'S SUFFERING.

>> Cathy: WELL, BECAUSE RESIDENTIAL IS STRONG, I MEAN, I WONDER, WELL, LUNDS AND BYERLY'S IS GOING TO PULL OUT, WHAT ABOUT THAT?

>> YEAH, THEY REALLY BLAME, AS YOU WERE SAYING, THE STATE EMPLOYEES LEAVING, WITHOUT THE OFFICE WORKERS COMING IN FOR LUNCH, GRABBING THINGS, YOU WOULD HOPE, YOU KNOW, HOPED WHEN THEY OPENED IN 2014 THAT THAT RESIDENTIAL PUSH WOULD INCREASE AND GROW, IT HASN'T REALLY GROWN FAST ENOUGH.

>> Eric: A LOT OF HOCKEY FANS.

>> 250,000 PEOPLE ARE COMING TO St. PAUL AND MINNEAPOLIS DECEMBER 26 THROUGH JANUARY 5 FOR THE WORLD JUNIORS.

YOU KNOW, THESE ARE THE 17-YEAR-OLDS, 18-YEAR-OLDS, UNDER 20s, TRYING TO MAKE IT TO THE NATIONAL TEAM, TRYING TO MAKING IT TO THE NHL.

IT'S GOING TO BE RIGHT HERE, IT'S GOING TO BE HUGE.

29 GAMES BETWEEN MARIUCCI, THE U OF M, AND DOWNTOWN St. PAUL.

NINE COUNTRIES.

>> Eric: AND 20,000 FANS FOR THE HIGH SCHOOL FINAL.

>> YEAH.

I MEAN, IT'S LIKE A ST. PATRICK'S DAY EVERY DAY AROUND HERE, INCLUDING MONDAY.

INCLUDING MONDAY.

>> Cathy: ARE YOU THEN SAYING THAT OFFICIALS ARE THINKING THERE ARE GLIMMERS OF HOPE HERE.

BECAUSE IT LOOKS PRETTY DISMAL AT THIS POINT.

>> YEAH.

CERTAINLY THAT CENTRAL AREA IS PRETTY DISMAL.

AND THEN YOU HAVE KIND OF GLIMMERS OF HOPE AROUND MARRIES PARK, MAYBE -- MEARS PARK, RESIDENTIALLY, THEY LOST A LOT OF RESTAURANTS AROUND THERE, GLIMMERS OF HOPE AROUND