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TED: COMING UP NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON," SUPERINTENDENT OF PUBLIC INSTRUCTION TOM HORNE JOINS US IN STUDIO TO TALK ABOUT ENROLLMENT AND THE STATE'S EDUCATION VOUCHER PROGRAM SURPASSING THE 100,000 MARK.

>>> THE POLITICAL IMPACT OF THE CANDIDATE FROM THE ARIZONA WANT IN PARTY IN THE GOVERNOR'S RACE.

>>> AND NEW MEDICAL DEVICE IS BEING CALLED A PERSONAL GUARDIAN FOR YOUR HEART.

THOSE STORIES AND MORE NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON."

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TED: GOOD EVENING AND WELCOME TO "ARIZONA HORIZON," I'M TED SIMONS.

ENROLLMENT IN ARIZONA'S EMPOWERMENT SCHOLARSHIP PROGRAM HIT THE 100,000 MARK NOT LONG AFTER THE COST TO THE STATE HIT THE ONE BILLION DOLLAR MARK.

JOINING US TO TALK ABOUT ESAs, TOM HORNE, SUPERINTENDENT OF PUBLIC INSTRUCTION, GOOD TO SEE YOU.

>> GOOD TO SEE YOU, TED.

TED: 100,000 ENROLLMENT MARK, YOUR THOUGHTS?

>> IN THE THREE YEARS, WE'VE GONE FROM 11,000 TO 100,000, IT MAKES ME FEEL LIKE I MUST BE DOING SOMETHING RIGHT.

TED: ARE YOU DOING SOMETHING RIGHT?

SOUNDS LIKE MORE KIDS ARE BEING TAKEN OUT OF PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

IS THAT A GOOD THING?

>> IT'S A NEUTRAL THING.

IF A STUDENT LEAVES A PUBLIC SCHOOL TO GO TO ESA, THE SCHOOL LOSES THE MONEY, BUT THEY ALSO LOSE THE COST OF EDUCATING THE STUDENT, WHAT COUNTS IS NOT THE TOTAL AMOUNT OF MONEY THE SCHOOL HAS BUT THE AMOUNT PER STUDENT.

SO BIG SCHOOL WITH A LOT OF MONEY, BUT NOT MUCH PER STUDENT IS WORSE OFF THAN A SMALL SCHOOL WITH A LOT LESS MONEY, BUT MORE PER STUDENT EDUCATIONALLY.

SO REALLY THE EFFECT IS NEUTRAL.

THERE'S NO EFFECT.

TED: IN THE GRAND SCHEME OF THINGS, PUBLIC SCHOOL ENROLLMENT DOWN 25,000.

20+ SCHOOLS CLOSING IN THE LAST YEAR ALONE.

AGAIN, WITH THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS AND CHARTER SCHOOLS FACING, THIS AND ALL THE MONEY, ALL THE RESOURCES GOING TO ESAs AND PRIVATE SCHOOLS, IS THAT GOOD FOR ARIZONA?

MOST KIDS GO TO PUBLIC SCHOOLS?

>> 1,200,000 GO TO PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

ESAs ARE NOT A THREAT TO THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS, AND I THINK THEY'RE A BENEFIT TO THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS BECAUSE COMPETITION MAKES EVERYONE PERFORM BETTER.

THAT'S WHY THE UNITED STATES WAS PROSPEROUS AND THE SOVIET UNION WAS POOR BECAUSE HERE PEOPLE COMPETED, WORKED HARD TO COMPETE, AND SO THEY PRODUCED A LOT, AND WE COULD CONSUME A LOT.

IN POLAND, THEY USED TO SAY, WE PRETEND TO WORK AND THEY PRETEND TO PAY US.

A GOVERNMENT MONOPOLY IS NOT THE WAY TO GET THE BEST WORK OUT OF PEOPLE.

COMPETITION IS.

TED: AND YET, YOU HAD THE FORMULA THERE AS FAR AS A WASH IN SOME WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM REGARDING FINANCES, IF THE COST IS AT $1 BILLION PLUS RIGHT NOW, IS IT BETTER NOT TO REDIRECT SOME OF THE FUNDS, MANY OF THE FUNDS, MOST OF THE FUNDS TO PUBLIC AND CHARTER SCHOOLS?

>> THE FUNDING IS DONE ON A PER PUPIL BASIS.

SO THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS, THE TOTAL COST OF A STUDENT IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS, IF YOU INCLUDE ALL SOURCES, INCLUDING LOCAL TAXES, IS 13,000 PER STUDENT.

IN ESAs, WE PAY $7400 PER STUDENT, UNLESS IT'S SPECIAL ED.

TED: RIGHT, THE IDEA THERE'S A BILLION DOLLARS THERE, THAT COULD BE USED FOR X, BUT IT'S USED FOR Y.

>> THEN THEY WOULD HAVE TO EDUCATE ALL THOSE PEOPLE.

IF ESA CLOSED DOWN TOMORROW, IF THE GOVERNOR HAD HER WAY AND ESA CLOSED DOWN, ALL THE STUDENTS WENT TO PUBLIC SCHOOL, IT WOULD CREATE A CRISIS, AND THE STATE BUDGET WOULD GO UP.

TED: ARE YOU SAYING -- REGARDING ESAs IN GENERAL, THEN, IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU THINK THE MORE THE MERRIER, THE BETTER FOR THE STATE.

ARE REFORMS TO ESAS -- >> I'M NOT SAYING THE MORE THE MERRIER.

I'M SAYING IT DOESN'T MATTER.

WHAT'S IMPORTANT IS IF A FAMILY FEELS THAT THEIR CHILD'S NEEDS ARE NOT MET IN A LOCAL PUBLIC SCHOOL, THEY SHOULD HAVE A CHOICE TO FIND A SCHOOL THAT MEETS THE CHILD'S NEEDS, THAT'S THE ONLY THING THAT IS IMPORTANT.

TED: WITH THE SUPPORT OF THE ESAs, THEY CAN'T AFFORD A LOT OF PRIVATE SCHOOLS AROUND TOWN?

>> THEN THEY WON'T GO TO THE PRIVATE SCHOOLS.

>> IS THAT FAIR?

IS THAT RIGHT?

WHEN YOU HAVE PEOPLE THAT CAN AND CAN'T AFFORD?

>> THAT'S AN OLD, OLD THING, RICH PEOPLE COULD GO TO PRIVATE SCHOOLS AND POOR PEOPLE COULDN'T.

TED: NOW RICH PEOPLE CAN ALSO GO TO PRIVATE SCHOOLS, YOU CAN GET MONEY WITHOUT THE ESAs.

>> NOW DON'T HAVE TO HAVE MONEY TO GO TO A PRIVATE SCHOOL.

THAT'S WHAT THE ESA IS ALL ABOUT, AND IT'S COST US LESS THAN IF THE STUDENT IS IN PUBLIC SCHOOL -- TED: AGAIN, IF THE AVERAGE IS 7,000 AND THE SCHOOL WANTS 14 AND YOU'RE A LOWER INCOME FAMILY, YOU GOT WORKING OUT TO DO TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO GET THAT DONE AND THE PUBLIC SCHOOL IS RIGHT DOWN THE STREET.

I WANT TO MOVE ON HERE REGARDING -- >> THERE ARE PRIVATE SCHOOLS WHO LOWER THEIR TUITION SO THAT ESA KIDS CAN GO.

TED: DO YOU THINK REFORM IS NEEDED FOR ESA?

I KNOW THE FORMER REPUBLICAN CLARIFY THE STATE, SHE CALLED FOR IT, WHAT ABOUT YOU?

>> YOU KNOW, DEPENDS ON WHAT THE REFORM IS, BUT BASICALLY THE LEGISLATURE MAKES THOSESTITIONS.

I'M AN ADMINISTRATOR, I'LL ADMINISTRATE WHATEVER THEY TELL ME TO DO.

SO I TRY NOT TO GET INVOLVED IN SOME OF THOSE THINGS.

I HAVE PLENT OF CONTROVERSIES AS YOU KNOW.

TED: I UNDERSTAND, THE GOVERNOR WANTS CAP ON VOUCHERS, $250,000.

IF SOMEONE MAKES $260,000, SHOULD THEY GET FINANCIAL AID TO GO TO A PRIVATE SCHOOL?

>> IN GENERAL, I SAY THAT'S UP TO THE LEGISLATURE.

I WILL ISSUE THIS WARNING.

TODAY IT'S 250,000, AND PEOPLE THINK THAT'S JUST RICH PEOPLE, IT WON'T AFFECT ME.

BUT WHAT TYPICALLY HAPPENS IN A SITUATION LIKE THAT, SOMEBODY SAYS WHY SHOULD IT BE 250?

WHY SHOULDN'T IT BE 200, THE NUMBER COMES DOWN AND THE TARGET IS PEOPLE THAT HAVE BEEN FAVORED IN THE FIRST PLACE THINKING IT WOULD STAY AT 250.

I'M LEAVING IT UP TO THE LEGISLATURE, WHATEVER THEY DO, I'LL IMPLEMENT.

TED: AS FAR AS YOUR THOUGHTS AND OPINIONS, YOU MENTIONED YOU GOT IN TROUBLE FROM THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY FOR SUGGESTING.

GOODNESS GRACIOUS, TOM, YOU GOT $10,000 GOLF SIMULATORS AND $5,000 WATCHES.

>> ALL THINGS I DENIED.

TED: YOU GOT TO THINK SOME OF THIS STUFF ISN'T GETTING THROUGH.

>> THE IMPORTANT POINT IS I DENIED THOSE, AND PRIMARY OPPONENT SAYS I DIDN'T DENY IT.

IF SHE WERE THE SUPERINTENDENT OF SCHOOLS, SHE WILL BE PAYING FOR ALL THOSE THINGS, SHE DOESN'T HAVE THE AUTHORITY.

TED: IF SHE DOES BECOME SUPERINTENDENT OF PUBLIC INSTRUCTION, THOSE THINGS WOULD HAVE BEEN PAID FOR, IS THAT RIGHT?

>> NO, IT'S TERRIBLY WRONG, AND THAT'S WHY I'M RUNNING HARD FOR RE-ELECTION.

TED: AND I DON'T WANT TO MAKE THIS INTO A DEBATE AND HE SAID/SHE SAID, PRIMARY OPPONENT SAYS YOU ARE NOT AUTHORIZED TO MAKE MUCH OF ANY CHANGES AT ALL.

>> THAT'S WHAT SHE SAYS.

TED: YOU SAID THE SAME THING BECAUSE IT'S UP TO THE LEGISLATURE, CORRECT?

>> NO, NO, AS FAR AS BEING AUTHORIZED.

TED: THE ESAS?

>> YES.

I CAN SAY NO, AND I DO.

I'M NOT THE FINAL SAY.

THEY CAN APPEAL TO ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE, AND I SAY DO THEY HAVE THE AUTHORITY.

THEY ALL RULED MY WAY, 21-0.

WHO DO YOU BELIEVE?

THE 21 ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGES OR 1 CANDIDATE?

TED: LAST QUESTION BEFORE YOU GO, YOU SAY IT'S UP TO THE LEGISLATURE, BUT ARE REFORMS NEEDED?

BECAUSE A LOT OF CRITICS SAY THIS THING IS JUST READY TO GET OUT OF CONTROL.

AND SOME THINK IT ALREADY IS OUT OF CONTROL?

>> I'VE BEEN ASSERTING CONTROL.

THAT'S WHAT'S BEEN CONTROVERSIAL.

I ESTABLISH TWO RULES.

RULE NUMBER ONE, NO EXPENDITURE UNLESS IT'S A VALID EDUCATIONAL PURCHASE, AND NUMBER TWO, REASONABLE COST ACCORDING TO MARKET PRICES TO MEET THE NEEDS OF THE STUDENT.

AND WE WILL NOT FUND ANYTHING UNLESS IT MEETS THOSE CRITERIA.

TED: TOM HORNE, ARIZONA SUPERINTENDENT OF PUBLIC INSTRUCTION, NICE TO HAVE YOU.

>> NICE TO SEE YOU.

HAVE ME BACK.

I LOVE COMING.

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TED: HEALTH INDUSTRY EXECUTIVE HUGH LYTLE ANNOUNCED CANDIDACY FOR GOVERNOR.

THE FIRST-EVER STATEWIDE CANDIDATE FOR THE NEWLY LABELED ARIZONA INDEPENDENT PARTY WHICH COULD TAKE VOTES FROM REPUBLICAN AND ESPECIALLY DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATES.

IN THIS CASE, GOVERNOR HOBBS.

WE WELCOME STACY PEARSON, A PARTNER AT LOOMIN STRATEGIES, THANKS FOR BEING HERE.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

TED: HUGH LYTLE, THOUGHTS ON HIS CANDIDACY, THOUGHTS ON ARIZONA INDEPENDENT PARTY AIP.

>> THAT'S THE CURRENT NAME.

IT STARTED NO LABELS BECAUSE THAT ITSELF IS A LABEL CLAIMING HAVE YOU NO LABEL AS A LABEL, BUT I REALLY WANT TO FOCUS ON THE FACT THAT INDEPENDENT CANDIDATES AND SELF-FUNDED CANDIDATES SIMPLY DON'T DO WELL IN ARIZONA.

PEOPLE WHO TRY TO BUY ELECTED POSITIONS, ARIZONANS SEE RIGHT THROUGH.

TED: THAT BEING SAID, WHEN YOU HAVE A THIRD-PARTY CANDIDATE, AND SOMEONE THAT GETS RECOGNITION, THE NAME ARIZONA INDEPENDENT PARTY WHICH GETS RECOGNITION, I'M OLD ENOUGH TO REMEMBER A THIRD-PARTY CANDIDATE NAMED BILL SCHULTZ WHO GOT INTO THE RACE WITH KAREN WARNER AND GOVERNOR MECUM AND WHAT DO YOU KNOW?

GOVERNOR MECUM WAS THE RESULT.

>> THE NATIONAL TOWN AND TENOR AND WHO THE INDEPENDENT CANDIDATE DRAWS VOTES FROM?

RIGHT NOW DEMOCRATS ARE COALESCING, WE SAW THIS OVER THE WEEKEND IN TEXAS.

DEMOCRATS ARE COALESCING AND PUTTING THEIR MONEY WHERE THEIR MOUTHS ARE AND TURNING OUT, GETTING BACK TO THE GRASSROOTS EFFORT, THE ISSUES THAT MATTER, TALKING ABOUT THE ECONOMY, AND SO CERTAINLY, I THINK, IN THIS CASE, WE'LL HAVE MORE ISSUE WITH THE REPUBLICANS AND INDEPENDENT CANDIDATE TAKING AWAY FROM THE MAGA BAIT.

TED: HUGH LYTLE WANTS TO BRIDGE THE PARTISAN DIVIDE.

HE SAYS THE TWO PARTIES ARE TRAPPED IN A FIGHT THAT NEVER ENDS, DOES HE HAVE A POINT THERE?

>> IT'S CUTE.

I LIKE HIS OPTIMISM.

TWO PARTIES ARE DESIGNED TO BE IN OPPOSITION.

I APPRECIATE HIS OPTIMISM AND PEOPLE WANT TO BELONG TO SOMETHING THAT MATTERS.

WHAT WE SEE WHAT'S GOING WRONG WITH THE REPUBLICAN PARTY AND THE WAY THEY'RE ENFORCING IMMIGRATION, WE SEE FOLKS GOING BACK TO THEIR ROOTS AND GOING BACK TO THE LEFT.

TED: YOU'RE A VETERAN POLITICAL STRATEGIST, YOU KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON, YOU KNOW IF IT'S AN INDEPENDENT PARTY CANDIDATE WITH THE NAME INDEPENDENT IN THE LABEL THERE, NOT LIKELY TO TAKE MORE FROM REPUBLICANS THAN DEMOCRATS.

DEMOCRATS HAVE TO BE A LITTLE MORE CONCERNED ABOUT THIS, DON'T THEY?

>> I THINK IT'S BOTH.

THERE'S BEEN A VERY CONCERTED AND WELL-FUNDED EFFORT TO GET REPUBLICANS TO MOVE OUT OF THAT INDEPENDENT PARTY, FOLKS THAT REREGISTERED AFTER TRUMP WON THE FIRST TIME.

FOLKS THAT DECIDED TO BE INDEPENDENTS IN 2018 OR 2020, TO COME BACK HOME, THOSE ARE FOLKS THAT ARE NOT MAGA, THEY ARE ARIZONA LIBERTARIANS.

PEOPLE VOTED FOR TRUMP LAST NOVEMBER AND VOTED TO LEGALIZE ABORTION.

THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO VOTE TO FUND PUBLIC EDUCATION AND VOTE FOR TOM HORNE, WHO WAS JUST ON.

THESE ARE FOLKS THAT VOTE FOR BONDS AND OVERRIDES AND SPLIT TICKETS.

ARIZONA IS INFAMOUS FOR HAVING FOLKS SPLIT TICKETS.

TED: YET, HAVING SOMEONE GO ON THE BALLOT AND HAVE PRESENCE THERE BECAUSE, AGAIN, THAT LABEL, AND THAT LABEL -- REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS ARE GOING TO COURT TO STOP THIS, THE LABEL CHANGE.

>> THEY ARE, AND UNDERSTANDABLY.

I CANNOT DECLARE MYSELF A DEMOCRAT WITH A CHANGE IN THE SPELLING AND CREATE A NEW PARTY.

INDEPENDENT WAS A CATCHALL FOR PEOPLE THAT WEREN'T AFFILIATED WITH PARTIES.

THIS ISN'T THAT.

SO WE SEE LOTS OF COVERAGE OR EVEN SEE THE FOLKS THAT ARE PROMOTING THIS BEING VICTIMS OF THE PARTIES ARE OUT TO GET ME.

NO, YOU'RE GOING TO CONFUSE PEOPLE.

INDEPENDENT IS FREE OF A PARTY LABEL, NOT AS PART OF THIS NO LABELS PARTY.

TED: RIGHT, EXCEPT NOW IT IS.

>> NOW IT IS, UNLESS IT'S NOT.

UNDERSTANDABLY CONFUSING.

TED: REAL QUICKLY, I DON'T WANT TO MAKE THIS WHOLE SEGMENT ON HIM, BUT HIS IDEAS HERE.

REDIRECTING ESA FUNDING TO HOUSING ASSISTANCE, NOT A BAD IDEA?

>> CERTAINLY ANYTHING BUT ROLEX BUSES AND CATHOLIC SCHOOL TUITION WOULD BE GREAT.

TED: PAY RAISE FOR POLICE AND TEACHERS?

>> I'M A COP'S WIFE SO I'M A BIASED AUDIENCE, CERTAINLY.

>> THE NAME ITSELF AND HOW MUCH OF A DIFFERENCE THAT WOULD MAKE.

THESE AREN'T REPUBLICAN POLICIES.

THESE ARE POLICIES THAT ARE MORE ALIGNED WITH DEMOCRATS, THAT'S GOT TO BE A CONCERN FOR DEMOCRATS.

>> DEMOCRATS WIN BY BEING MODERATE.

WE DON'T HAVE THE FAR LEFT CANDIDATES COMING OUT.

WE HAVE MILITARY VETERANS, SOCIAL WORKERS, THE CURRENT GOVERNOR.

TWO U.S.

SENATORS SERVED OUR COUNTRY, ARIZONA IS NOTORIOUS FOR HAVING MODERATE DEMOCRATS WIN AT THE TOP OF THE TICKET.

TED: AND FILING THE LAWSUIT AGAINST THE NAME CHANGE.

THE REASON FOR THAT IS?

>> CONFUSION.

PEOPLE WHO DECLARE THEMSELVES AS INDEPENDENT ARE FREE FROM A PARTY, AND THIS ISN'T THAT.

THIS WAS A BAIT AND SWITCH.

IT WAS ORIGINALLY NO LABELS, NOW NO LABELS, NO LABELS INDEPENDENT, IT IS LEGITIMATELY CONFUSING, PEOPLE IN ARIZONA TYPICALLY GET IT CHOOSE WHICH PRIMARY THEY VOTE IN.

IF IT'S THE DEMOCRATS' PRIMARY OR REPUBLICANS' PRIMARY.

IT'S NOT THAT ANYMORE.

TED: IF THEY BECOME THIS.

>> YEAH.

TED: PAUL JOHNSON IS BEHIND ALL THIS.

WHAT MESSAGE DO YOU HAVE FOR HIM?

>> AH -- >> GO AHEAD.

>> I WISH HE WOULD ZOOM OUT AND REALLY LOOK AT BIG PICTURE HERE.

BLOWING UP A SYSTEM JUST LIKE HIS TOP TWO PRIMARIES TRIED TO DO LAST CYCLE, BLOWING UP THE ENTIRE SYSTEM ISN'T THE ANSWER.

GET IN THERE, FIND CANDIDATES CAN YOU SUPPORT AND MOVE ON.

THIS SYSTEM IS DESIGNED.

IT DOES.

TED: THERE ARE A LOT OF FOLKS THAT IT DOESN'T WORK.

THEY SAY IT DOESN'T WORK, THEY THINK IT DOESN'T WORK.

WHAT'S YOUR MESSAGE FOR THEM?

>> THAT HURTS MY HEART.

WE'RE SEEING ADDITIONAL CORRECTIONS BUDGET BE SPENT BY A DEMOCRAT IN THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE.

THERE ARE BIG PROBLEMS THAT WE CAN SOLVE IF WE JUST STOP SCREAMING OR TRY TO BLOW UP THE SYSTEM.

TED: STACY PEARSON, PARTNER AT LUMEN STRATEGIES.

THE AIP PARTY, SHOULD WE CALL IT THE AIP?

>> I DON'T THINK CAN I SAY WHAT I'D LIKE TO CALL IT ON THE AIR.

TED: THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU.

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TED: THE SMALLEST HEART DEFIBRILLATOR DEVICE ON THE MARKET WAS IMPLANTED BY BANNER HEALTH IN A MOVE THAT OFFERS HOPE FOR PATIENTS WHO NEED PROTECTION FROM LIFE THREATENING HEART RHYTHMS.

WELCOME TO THE SHOW.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

TED: GOOD TO HAVE YOU HERE.

WHAT IS A LEAD IMPLANT, WHAT'S GOING ON HERE?

>> MANY PEOPLE HAVE HEARD OF PACE MAKERS, MY FATHER HAD ONE, MY FRIEND HAD ONE.

THE PACEMAKER IS AN ELECTRONIC DEVICE THAT SITS ABOVE THE CHEST AND IMPLANTED INTO THE SKIN AND THERE'S A WIRE THAT IS THE GUARDIAN OF THE HEART AND KEEPS UP WITH THE TIME AND THE PACE OF THE HEART.

TYPICALLY, IT'S THE SLOW HEART RHYTHMS, THIS GIVES A FLOOR TO KICK IN IF THE HEART RATE IS TOO SLOW.

TED: THIS SEEMS LIKE THE FOCUS OF THIS ONE IS MAYBE OTHER DANGEROUS RHYTHMS AS WELL?

>> IN THE WORLD OF HEART RHYTHM DISORDERS OR ARRYTHMIAS, YOU HAVE DEFIBRILLATORS AND THEY ALLOW A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF VOLTAGE OR CHARGE TO RESCUE A PATIENT AND GIVE A LIFE-SAVING SHOCK.

WE SAW DAMAR HAMLIN GO DOWN ON THE FIELD, BRONNY JAMES WENT DOWN AT USC.

THIS IS A BIG DEAL WHEN ATHLETES HAVE CARDIAC ARREST.

THE LEADING CAUSE OF DEATH IN AMERICA.

THIS IS THE ABILITY TO HAVE THE TWICE THAT PROTECTS FROM LIFE THREATENING ARRYTHMIA BUT USE A PACEMAKER FUNCTION.

IT'S AN ALL IN ONE COMBINED FIRST EVER THAT'S THE MOST MINIATURIZED VERSION WE HAVE SEEN.

TED: HOW MINIATURIZEED?

.

>> THE TYPICAL LEAD OR CABLE CAN BE 7 TO 12 LENGTHS THIS IS 4 1/2 WHICH IS HALF THE SIZE, IT'S A THIN WIRE WHICH GOES ACROSS, AND TYPICALLY YOU WOULD NEED TWO WIRES TO DO THE JOB, THIS ONLY NEEDS ONE AND IT'S HALF THE SIZE.

WHEN iPHONE CAME OUT, IT'S LIKE WOW IT'S A COMPUTER AND A CAMERA?

AMAZING.

THAT'S WHAT'S FINALLY HERE IN MEDICAL TECHNOLOGY.

TED: WHY IS IT IMPORTANT TO BE SO SMALL?

I UNDERSTAND BEING SMALL, BUT BEING SO SMALL.

WHY IS THAT A BIG DEAL?

>> ANY TIME YOU IMPLANT A MEDICAL DEVICE, THE BODY SHOULDN'T ACCEPT IT.

IT'S A FOREIGN BODY, WHAT YOU DON'T WANT ARE THE WIRES GOING THROUGH THE VEINS AND CAN BLOCK OFF THE VESSELS WHICH IS A THROMBOSIS OR A CLOT, IT INCREASES THE RISK OF INFECTION, WHEN YOU PUT WIRES ACROSS THE HEART CHAMBERS, THEY ACROSS THE HEART VALVES AND THE VALVES WANT TO CLOSE AND OPEN IN ITS OWN WAY BUT THE LEADS KEEP THEM OPEN CALLED REGURGITATION AND CREATES HEART VALVE PROBLEMS IN UP TO 20 OR 30% OF THE PATIENTS.

>> THIS WOULD ALLEVIATE THAT?

>> IT WOULD BECAUSE OF ITS SIZE AND NEEDING ONE LESS LEAD.

THAT IS A TREMENDOUS PARTNERSHIP WITH MEDTRONIC WHICH CAME OUT WITH THE FIRST EVER DEVICE.

TED: I WANT TO GET BACK TO THE DANGEROUS RHYTHMS ASPECT.

WE HAD OUR HEART SKIP A BEAT, WHAT'S GOING ON THERE, BUT THIS IS WHEN LITERALLY THE HEART STOPS?

>> CORRECT.

THE HEART CAN STOP FROM A SLOW RHYTHM BUT CAN STOP FROM A RAPID LIFE THREATENING RHYTHM CALLED VENTRICULAR FIBRILLATION.

EVERYONE SEES IT ON TV, ER, ALL THE DRAMA, CLEAR, SHOCK, THIS IS PARAMEDICS IN THE CHEST.

IT IS BEAUTIFUL FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE HIGH RISK FOR CARDIAC ARREST.

TED: IT HONOR TOS WHEN IT SEES SOMETHING WRONG, IT CHARGES AND -- >> CAN DELIVER A SHOCK, BACK YOU UP AND DO ALL IN ONE IN ONE LEAD.

WE EXPECT ALL THE OTHER DEVICE COMPANIES TO COME THROUGH.

TED: BANNER THE FIRST IN THE UNITED STATES TO DO THIS, HUH?

>> WE HAVE A VERY BOLD VISION AT BANNER UNIVERSITY MEDICAL CENTER TO BE ONE OF THE TOP TEN HEART PROGRAMS IN THE COUNTRY IN THE VALLEY BECAUSE PHOENIX HAS TO BE KNOWN FOR A PLACE THAT'S DESTINATION FOR HEALTH CARE, AND ONE OF THE GREAT THINGS IS THAT WE'VE HAD SUCH SUCCESSFUL RECRUITMENT FROM A LOT OF KEY OPINION LEADER WITH THE NATIONAL REPUTATION, THAT THE RELATIONSHIPS THAT WE HAVE TEN OR 15 YEARS IN DEVELOPMENT WITH THE COMPANIES, THEY'RE ALREADY IN PLACE.

TED: INTERESTING.

I WANT TO GET BACK TO THE ACTUAL DEVICE, THOUGH.

YOU HEAR ABOUT PACEMAKERS, GOT TO REPLACE IT EVERY SO OFTEN, I DON'T KNOW HOW OFTEN, IT NEEDS TO BE REPLACED.

>> FIVE TO TEN YEARS, MAYBE 15.

TED: WHAT ABOUT THIS LITTLE GUY?

>> 10 TO 15 YEARS, BATTERY LIFES ARE GETTING LONGER AND LONGER.

WE DREAM OF THE DAY THEY ARE RECHARGEABLE.

THERE ARE A COUPLE NEW PACEMAKERS THAT ARE RECHARGEABLE JUST LIKE OUR iPHONES.

IT'S A BRAVE NEW WORLD.

TED: IT IS IMPORTANT FOR A WIDE VARIETY OF PATIENTS.

THE YOUNGER I WOULD THINK ESPECIALLY, FOLKS WHO SUFFER FROM IT AT A YOUNGER AGE.

YOU MENTIONED BRONNY JAMES, THE BUFFALO BILLS PLAYER, THESE WERE SHOCKING WHEN THEY OCCURRED.

>> NO PUN INTENDED.

THESE BRING TO LIGHT CARDIAC ARREST, SOMEONE GOES DOWN, THERE'S A LOSS OF TONE AND SOMEONE GOES DOWN.

THE EHA, I DO THE CARDIOLOGY FOR THE SUNS AND IT'S ABOUT PREPAREDNESS, UNDERSTANDING SOMEONE GOES DOWN AND THEY LOSEN TO, WE HAVE TO ADMINISTER CPR IMMEDIATELY.

EVERY MINUTE IS A COMPROMISE TO THE BRAIN FUNCTION.

TED: THE PROCEDURE OF IMPLANTING, WHAT'S INVOLVED?

>> THIS IS A ONE OR TWO-INCH INCISION ON THE SKIN HERE.

THE BATTERY GOES UNDERNEATH IT UNDER AND THE COLLARBONE IS THE VEIN AND THE WIRE GOES RIGHT INTO THE HEART.

ONLY ABOUT A FOOT AND A HALF AWAY, SO EVERYTHING CAN EXIST RIGHT HERE.

THERE ARE IMPLANTS UNDER THE LAT AND OTHER OPTIONS, BUT THIS IS NOT AN OPEN-HEART SURGERY.

PACEMAKERS ARE INCREASINGLY DONE IN UNDER AN HOUR, UNDER LOCAL ANESTHESIA.

TED: AND RECOVERY TIME?

>> A DAY OR TWO.

THIS IS NOT SOMETHING PEOPLE ARE AMPLATING AN HOUR AFTER THE PROCEDURE.

TED: DR.

RODRICK TUNG, THIS HEART DEFIBRILLATOR, WHERE DO YOU GO FROM HERE?

>> THERE'S GOING TO BE A LOT OF FIRSTS YOU'LL SEE FROM US IN PHOENIX, AND LIKE WE SAID, THERE'S A BRAVE NEW WORLD.

YOU THINK ABOUT BEING BORN IN THE 20s PREPENICILLIN AND FAST-FORWARD TO HERE.

LOOK AT THE ADVANCES, WE GOT TECHNOLOGY HAPPENING.

BLUETOOTH TALKING TO EACH OTHER.

IT'S AN EXCITING TIME TO BE IN MEDICINE.

TED: DOCTOR, THANKS FOR SHARING, VERY INTERESTING AND ENCOURAGING STUFF, THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU.

TED: THAT IS IT FOR NOW.

I'M TED SIMONS.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

YOU HAVE A GREAT EVENING.