The following is an AZPM original production.

From the radio studios of AZPM, welcome to the latest edition of The Press Room.

I'm Steve Goldstein.

Coming up as the school year gets underway, we'll focus on education.

How are schools and teachers dealing with federal cuts?

How important is education after high school?

And how are state universities driving innovation?

Guests from the Arizona Education Association, the Arizona Board of Regents, and the Helios Foundation join me next on The Press Room.

(upbeat music) Welcome to this special edition of The Press Room.

I'm Steve Goldstein.

Since August is the time when students, educators, and support staff return to campuses and classrooms, we've decided to dedicate this episode to education in Arizona.

I'll be talking with a member of the Arizona Board of Regents and a leader of a vital educational foundation later, but I'm joined first by Marisol Garcia.

She is president of the Arizona Education Association, the union for the state's public school educators.

Marisol, welcome to The Press Room.

Thank you for joining me.

Thank you so much.

So how do you assess the current condition of Arizona's K-12 public schools right now?

I'm almost asking, if you were to give a state of education speech, what would it sound like?

It would sound like, hold on guys, it's gonna get even bumpier.

We really are living in a world of instability, but we're gonna get through this.

Well, and I almost have to ask you about your shirt.

We can't quite see the whole thing, but proud union.

And I think of Red for Ed, of course, when it comes to some of the efforts.

Would those be possible today?

I mean, I know it was a big climb before, but now would it be even harder?

Actually, I think that we in our union are growing almost daily.

We're finding educators really do wanna be part of something bigger.

They wanna organize for workplace, working conditions, workplace status.

It's actually going really well.

We're organizing like we haven't seen before.

Does that have to do with the realization that it's a bumpy ride that you said, that people are thinking, "Okay, I can't just rest on my laurels.

"I have to really get in and fight."

Yeah, I mean, I think the first reason I can think of is that educators who went into this profession knowing that they were going to take on a lot more than expected.

We enter this profession hoping to change kids' lives and really open up opportunities.

So if that means that we have to get involved in policy and at least lend our voices to ensure policy is good, a lot more of our members, younger members in particular, wanna get involved in that.

And two, the way that public education has been disrespected at a national and state level, the way that it's spoken about, I think there's a lot more need and interest to wanna change that way that we speak about public education.

Is there, there may be formal training that goes into this, but is there informal training as well to say, "Hey, you really wanna get involved.

"Here's the best way to do it."

Yeah, really, it's one-on-one organizing.

It's having our leaders at their sites going talking to members who are sharing similar frustrations that are happening maybe at a site level or at a district level.

Maybe there's safety concerns, if there's a schedule issue, if there's a student that's struggling.

When you come together at a workplace and try to fix it together, it does make you feel like you have some agency in what happens to you and your students.

So you know I'm gonna ask you about federal policy in a minute.

I'm gonna start with the state.

When the legislative session fin what about funding?

Did the legislature and governor take action that was something you were excited about and something that concerns you more?

I mean, I guess I give it like a C. (laughs) We give it a C mainly because, look, we understand that there are massive budget constraints, especially because in the past years, few years, there have been consistent tax cuts given to the wealthiest and to large corporations, which has led to less of a budget being flexible to invest in education.

We also understand that there are threats coming down from less federal money coming into the state.

And so that was very difficult to organize and lobby to get more investment.

What we were able to do though is keep ourselves from being cut.

There were small investments into ninth grade programs, some investments into our students in poverty, free lunch programs were invested in, but all in all, we just kept ourselves kind of clean.

And it may be the last time that happens here without some significant conversations on what to do.

Are you seeing an even greater partisan divide than you saw before?

So does it feel like one party supports traditional public schools and the other one doesn't almost like monoliths and there used to be a little bit more overlap and now there isn't?

I mean, I think that the last election did leave us with a legislature that is highly more partisan than it was in prior years.

However, I think what we are trying to do and will continue to do is really place ourselves in a nonpartisan, non-political place.

Public schools should not be political and they should not be partisan.

Great public schools impact all of us.

The students I teach in the Isaac School District are not going to stay in the Isaac School District.

They're going to go to higher universities or go work for companies throughout the state and throughout the country.

Public education is a common good.

And so when we are able to have authentic good conversations with legislators, we hope to get them in that space that this does not need to be a partisan fight.

Interesting, does that apply to one of the issues that has come up a lot, which is teacher pay?

I think that that has gotten a lot of headlines recently.

Is that something that there's a little bit more overlap?

Yes, that is true.

And actually when we start to talk about teacher pay, it ends up that a lot of legislators either are married to or have children that were educators.

So they have a unique perspective that is, I see what happens when each year, my child gets a 2% raise in how the rest of the economy impacts are unable to meet those things.

But I think what ends up happening is when educators like our union are able to sit down and talk to legislators, explain to them, it's really, we don't need to continue to have in-depth, get into the weed conversations.

It's very, very clear.

One way to end teacher retention issues is to pay people more money.

And it doesn't need to come with fancy bells and whistles.

We have enough accountability measures all over the place for public schools.

We just need to ensure that as a profession, people want to enter it because there is a way to make a living.

You just said you don't wanna get political, but I have to ask the federal question, which is the discussion of eliminating the US Department of Education, for example, and there are fights in the courts and we'll see when these things come to fruition, but it's clear that the Trump administration would like to do that.

So where would that leave Arizona?

What's the potential impact there?

I mean, the biggest impact is that it would leave us in a complete state of chaos when it came to funding.

We saw a glimpse of it or canary in the coal mine on July 1st, when monies, almost $130 million, were supposed to show up in district grants that had already been approved.

When the federal government decided to put a hold on it or freeze it, we saw a mass chaos across the state.

Districts trying to figure out how are we gonna reallocate, how are we gonna restructure, do we dip into our savings account, many of which didn't know if this was gonna last more than a year.

So we already got a taste of what it could look like.

I don't really know what the end game for dissolving the federal level involvement is with our state.

And I do hope though, that we can have real conversations about the funding that is needed to keep Arizona schools healthy.

Marisol, so let's end on a positive note.

If I could ask you what you're most proud of with Arizona's K-12 school system, what would it be?

I think it would be the fact that the educators that have lived through, not just prior to the disinvestment here in Arizona, but when we were actually investing and thriving, many of those educators are fully committed to staying in this profession.

And it's because they see the outcomes.

I go to grocery stores and see my former students working there or with their kids in their grocery carts.

And it reminds you of why I entered the profession and why people really do need to help and support us.

And I know the support's out there, we're gonna all come together and save our public schools.

It's great to hear.

Marisol Garcia, President of the Arizona Education Association.

Marisol, thanks for being on The Press Room.

Thank you so much.

And The Press Room continues after this, as I talk with one of the leader educational foundation in Arizona.

Stay with us.

When you want news that matters to you, turn to AZPM News.

Your voice, your news.

AZPM News at news.azpm.org.

Welcome back to this special education- focused edition of The Press Room.

I'm Steve Goldstein.

My next guest is Janice Palmer.

She is the Senior Vice President for Government Affairs and Public Policy for the Helios Foundation.

Janice, good to talk with you again.

How are you?

Fantastic.

Thank you, Steve.

Good to see you again.

So let's talk about assessing the value of education after high school.

There's such a focus, which makes sense, on K-12, but when it comes to universities, community colleges, or trade schools, what should we be thinking about there?

Yeah, we just finished up a study, Billions to Gain, research in March of 2023 that showed pursuing any kind of education beyond high school, it doesn't matter if it's college, community college, or trade school, that what we really see is the benefit not only is to the individual, where they can earn nearly three times the amount that a high school graduate can earn, but the benefits to the entire state are huge.

If we just saw a 20% increase in college enrollment, the state of Arizona would see a $5 billion increase in the lifetime earnings of those individuals.

And so you can imagine, we could really transform what the state looks like, not only for individuals, but for the community at large.

Are we making more progress when it comes to that?

Because obviously, what you said there makes tremendous sense.

Are we feeling the momentum heading toward that direction?

I think we are seeing momentum, right?

I mean, when we look at TSMC, that is relocating their fab over in the West Valley, those are the pipeline issues.

We're gonna need folks from every different aspect, right?

Maricopa Community Colleges are working on their associate's degree to move on into the workforce.

We have universities, what they're doing in healthcare in order to make sure that we are competitive into the workforce, those are great paying jobs.

And then we also see what we need to do in the pipeline, we need to make sure that kids that are starting school today are going to be prepared for the workforce of tomorrow.

And that means being educated to the point of going into community college, university, or into trade school.

That makes me want to ask you about dual enrollment then?

So in order for students to do even better when they get to a university or college or whatever higher education they choose, first of all, just explain to folks what dual enrollment is just in case they don't know.

And how important is that to get kids and students started in that direction in high school?

Oh my gosh, dual enrollment is one of my favorite things.

So thank you for asking, Steve, is that basically what you're doing in high school is taking a college level course and you're receiving not only high school credit, but you're also receiving college credit.

So many of our students, they may have either grown up in a family or not necessarily seen college in their future.

And the opportunity in high school to take that course in English and math and pass that at a college level in high school, all of a sudden now the conversation about whether you're college rea goes away.

You are, you did it.

And so what we have seen is that any student that enrolls in these courses are more than twice as likely to attend college.

But even more than that, we also see the benefits for debt reduction.

If you could already start with certain credits within your portfolio, that's gonna be less student loans, less student debt that you have.

But also what we see is it makes a profound difference for equity to ensure that all students have the ability to go on to post-secondary.

So that relevancy, that self-esteem and motivation for students to feel like they are ready for that next step.

And then the outcome is you'll get finished with a community college or university faster.

Janice, who helps to make the dual enrollment happen?

Is this a relationship districts and universities?

How does all that start?

So the vast majority of dual enrollment is a partnership between districts and community colleges.

And there's usually a intergovernmental agreement that makes that happen.

But I will tell you our universities have that as well.

Arizona State University also provides dual enrollment opportunities.

And I think we'll see that expand.

And really the issue is, and Marisol was talking earlier, is really making sure we have the teaching profession to have the credentials to teach that college level course in a high school setting.

So there's been a lot of legislation and we've also provided investments to organizations to incentivize teachers that may already be in the profession, but don't have that certification to be a college level instructor.

Or for other folks to enter the field that may not have thought of dual enrollment as one of their opportunities.

Making sure that we have the teachers necessary for students to take advantage of the courses being offered.

This next question may apply more to some of those students who are not doing dual enrollment.

Maybe they're not taking that step.

And that is chronic absenteeism.

I know Helios did a study on that recently.

And was that created by the pandemic and just never changed?

Or is that something that was there?

And are we seeing chronic absenteeism more among certain folks, certain backgrounds, or again, how much of it came from what someone described as the chaos of the pandemic?

Yeah, so we embarked on the research of chronic absenteeism really with COVID and trying to see what the impact is.

And what we found is that the rates in Arizona doubled during COVID-19.

So I wanna be clear that it was definitely a COVID phenomenon, but we still had a chronic absentee problem before this.

It's just exacerbated.

And so what we saw is there are about 14% of students that were chronically absent.

And just to be clear, chronically absent is missing 10% or more of the school year.

So about 18 days.

We have 180 day school year in Arizona.

So 18 days.

And what we saw that it peaked near 34%.

So if you can imagine one in three students is missing more than 18 days of school.

These are the times that students are making the habits of coming to school, the importa of education.

And then those are gonna be the students later on in the workforce that we're gonna wanna make sure that are showing up to their careers on time.

And while we have seen a rebound that we are seeing the work, the extraordinary work that districts, charters are doing in order to make sure students are in their classrooms, we still have a long way to go.

And I would say on kind of the equity if we're seeing certain students, we are seeing interestingly, there is not necessarily chronic absenteeism is happening across different demographics, across economic demographics, racial demographics, gender demographics.

But what we are seeing is the impact is really with our low income and historically marginalized students because the higher income that still may be missing those days at school, they have the resources in order to make up that time, to have that wraparound services that other students may not be able to afford from home.

That being in the classroom is absolutely critical for those students more than ever.

Janice, I saved a massive question for the last and we only have about a minute left, so forgive me for it.

But you've been involved in Arizona education for such a long time, School Boards Association, creation of Prop 123.

Can you narrow it down to the most significant change trend you've seen in education in the years you've been involved in in Arizona?

I really think that having education be the core foundational movemen into the state, that is one of the biggest differences I've seen.

When I first started, education really was not a partisan issue, every single person thought that education was the biggest priority.

There was no question that we wanted to leave the next generation stronger than what we had.

And it was really built on a public education system.

I think over the years, we have bifurcated that system which makes it more challenging to focus both our time and investment into those issues.

So I think that's where the real opportunity goes back to the basics.

Like are we ensuring that kids are reading by third grade?

Are we ensuring that kids are hitting the milestones for math in eighth grade?

Are folks post-secondary ready?

I think going back to the basics and making sure that we have a state that is focused on that North Star is more important than ever to kind of cut through all of the noise of everything else that's happening.

That was a big question, Janice.

Sorry to cut you off there.

I tried to do my best, yeah.

You did terrific.

Janice Palmer, Senior Vice President for Government Affairs and Public Policy for the Helios Foundation.

Great to talk with you again, thanks.

Fantastic, thank you, Steve.

Our special education episode of the Press Room continues after this with a conversation with a member of the Arizona Board of Regents.

Stay with us.

When you want news that matters to you, turn to AZPM News.

Your voice, your news.

AZPM News at news.azpm.org.

Welcome back to The Press Room, I'm Steve Goldstein.

Arizona's university system is also a key part of overall education in the state.

For a special degree of insight, I turn to Fred DuVal, a member of the Arizona Board of Regents since 2018.

He was previously a regent from 2006 until 2012 as well.

Fred, welcome to The Press Room, thank you.

Thank you, good to be with you.

So the state's three public universities are continuing to accomplish great things and economic impact is one of those items I wanted to have you talk about.

Not asking for specific numbers, but how significant does that continue to be to the state overall?

Just enormous.

I mean the university impact is worth about $2.5 billion a year in economic activity.

We are producing 400 to 500 new patents every year, which lead to new business startups, lead to new jobs.

Creating workforce, as you know, we have 220,000 students in our universities.

ASU now the largest university in the country.

We're producing workforce that our state needs.

Two great examples, which is engineering, which is ASU has now become the biggest engineering school in the country and is largely a big component of driving the applied manufacturing success that we're having and our new thrust into more doctors, nurses, medical practitioners, because we are badly behind in healthcare.

And so our duty is to invent the future and to produce the workforce that can lead it.

When you talk about healthcare, I know that has a personal place in your heart and your family history and the impact that your family had at the U of A where I am right now, but also the ASU medical school coming.

Talk a little bit more about the importance of that.

Oh, I'm happy to.

It is a source of pride.

My father was brought here in 1964 to start the U of A medical school in Tucson.

At the time, he and the consultants who helped him design it said it is inevitable that there will be medical schools in Phoenix and throughout the state.

It just took far longer than we'd planned.

But as a piece of unfinished family business for me, I've led the Healthy Arizona Initiative, which has now green lighted in ASU medical school, which will come online within the next year, which has a unique focus on engineering, which is the future of healthcare wearables, technology, et cetera.

And we are exploring branch campuses throughout the state.

So we are really all about both driving the bioscience future that Arizona deserves and producing the workforce so the Arizonans can get the healthcare they need.

Whether healthcare engineering or other fields, I really wanna ask you about how many of these innovations that have occurred could really to this point only happen at universities and colleges, whether it's U of A, ASU, NAU, or whatnot.

It does feel like those are where the roots of much of the innovation come from.

Absolutely, and I like that Michael Crow does this.

He likes to hold up his cell phone and say there are more than 20 university patents that are embedded in this technology.

It is true of everything.

I mean, you think about healthcare cures.

We are on the verge of conquering cancer.

We are making phenomenal breakthroughs in neurological diseases, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, et cetera.

We are driving into space, I mentioned wearables.

We're increasingly getting our healthcare on telephones and tablets.

All of those have university research at their core.

And so more important than ever and the pace of research in Arizona, really fantastic, let me just brag for a second.

Arizona is only one of seven states that have two universities with over a billion dollars of research, it's phenomenal.

Wow, so of the three universities, of the three public universities, certainly there is an overlap as the type of student, but they also serve different students at different stages in their lives.

What do you like or would you like to see more of when it comes to having opportunities for more people, either natives of Arizona or those who come from across the country to make sure that Arizona is a leading light when it comes to educational opportunity at the higher ed level?

Boy, that's, you know, right down the center of the plate for me.

We are near the bottom of the country in college degree attainment.

We are forced to recruit too much of our talent.

Now, fortunately, Arizona is a pretty compelling place to live and so we do a lot of that.

But talent is mobile, talent moves with opportunity.

It's not like, you know, copper and things which are on the ground or agriculture.

So talent moves and we're in a competition with other states and other nations to get it.

We must do two things.

One, we must get and draw the best talent from around the world that we can get.

And we're doing a great job with that because we have a very attractive offering.

More than half of the Fortune 500 companies worth over a billion dollars were started by students who came here as foreign students.

They are an entrepreneurial group of people who wanna build jobs, grow the economy, improve lives in America.

And second, to make sure that every worthy Arizona student has a place to come to go to get a degree in Arizona.

And we are working at that relentlessly and the two are linked because the out-of-state students pay a disproportionately higher share of tuition which enables us to capture some of that revenue and put it in play as financial aid to support Arizona students getting their degree at a lower cost.

In addition to the work you've done in education and business, of course some of us got to know you first because you were in the realm of politics, whether at the state level or the federal level.

When you mention foreign students, we have a certain thing going on right now that troubles some people the way that the current presidential administration has decided to treat people who are not born in the US.

How could that affect ASU, U of A, NAU's ability to attract foreign students?

How much could that affect, even hurt the universities going forward?

Enormously.

One I mentioned the balance sheet, which is the erosion of those incremental value dollars of full-paced students from out-of-state and out of the country make it possible for us to get more Arizona students through at a $4,000 a year price point.

So it's essential for our in-state Arizona students that we continue to have the flow.

Second, we live in a global economy and the more exposure our students have to the global economy, the better.

We must be clear that foreign students must be vetted for security risks.

That is a national imperative, b We absolutely can do both.

It's not an either-or.

And Google Australia and foreign students and many other countries, this competition game on.

And if we do not leverage having the best universities in the world, which has been a gift for us for many years, other nations will come seize the opportunity and we will miss it.

Fred, in that same vein, let me ask you about university research and the funding that has come from the federal government for so long.

And ASU, U of A, NAU have all been leaders when it comes to different aspects.

I mentioned innovation before.

Different aspects that have come from having incredibly brilliant researchers doing incredibly brilliant things in different categories.

So what's your level of concern and how can the state university system, I don't wanna say fight back against the administration, but do things that will still allow this university research and some of these amazing things to keep occurring?

It keeps us, Steve thanks, because it keeps us up at night.

I mean, I mentioned that talent is mobile as it relates to students.

So too the faculty.

And faculty are getting offers and packages from other countries around the world, Ireland, England, and others are coming to poach our best talent.

We do everything we can to make sure, one, that they feel supported.

Two, that they are tangibly supported in the form of infrastructure.

And we're grateful to the state this year made a $320 million investment in what's called speed bonds, which helps us build the facilities that enable the research that helps keep faculty here.

But it is an ongoing concern.

The future, the 21st century is a competition for talent.

Faculty talent, student talent, talent of all kinds.

And Arizona has a very attractive offering and we will rue the day that we do not take full advantage of being the attractive place for people to come work, stay, and invent and lose that to other countries and states.

Fred DuVal has been a member of the Arizona Board of Regents since 2018.

He was previously a regent from 2006 to 2012.

Fred, thanks so much for your insights today on The Press Room.

We appreciate it.

Thank you, Steve, as always.

And that is all for this edition of The Press Room from AZPM.

Please join us next week for our next edition.

I'm Steve Goldstein.

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