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DISCUSSING MATERNAL HEALTH CARE IN RURAL SOUTHERN ARIZONA.

UPDATING MIGRANT FAMILIES, LIVING AMID ICE DETENTION.

AND IF YOU'RE WONDERING WHAT THE RESULTS OF THE MIDTERM ELECTIONS MEAN FOR IMMIGRATION, WE'LL HAVE THOSE STORIES ON THE PRESS ROOM STARTING NOW.

HELLO AND WELCOME TO THE PRESS ROOM.

I'M TONY PERKINS, JOINED BY THIS WEEK'S PANEL OF JOURNALISTS, L. M. BOYD FROM AZPM NEWS.

JOHN WASHINGTON OF LOOKOUT, ALISA REZNICK FROM KJZZ AND CAROLINA CUELLAR FROM LUMINARIA.

THANKS FOR BEING WITH US ON THE PRESS ROOM.

WELL, A SURVEY OF LIKELY ARIZONA VOTERS IN 2026 FOUND THAT 80% AGREED THAT EXPANDING AFFORDABLE HEALTH CARE WOULD BENEFIT FAMILIES AND THE STATE'S ECONOMY, AND THAT AGREEMENT CUT ACROSS THE POLITICAL SPECTRUM.

REPORTING HAS FOUND THAT GETTING ACCESS TO MATERNAL HEALTH CARE IS ESPECIALLY A CONCERN IN RURAL SOUTHERN ARIZONA.

AND THAT'S OUR FIRST TOPIC FOR DISCUSSION.

L. M., YOUR THREE PART PODCAST ON THE SUBJECT IS AVAILABLE ON AZPM STARTING THIS WEEKEND.

WHAT ARE YOU FINDING OUT ABOUT HOW FAMILIES COPE WITH CHILDCARE CHALLENGES IN CERTAIN PARTS OF ARIZONA?

YEAH, WELL, THIS ALL STARTED ABOUT A YEAR AGO.

THERE WAS THIS PANEL DISCUSSION BETWEEN THE CEOS OF BANNER, EL RIO HEALTH AND TMC, AND THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT WHAT MEDICAID CUTS WOULD MEAN FOR THIS REGION.

AND ONE THING THAT REALLY STUCK WITH ME AND SCARED ME IS THAT LABOR AND DELIVERY UNITS ARE FIRST ON THE CHOPPING BLOCK.

WHENEVER A HOSPITAL IS LOOKING AT MAKING SOME CUTBACKS.

SO I REALLY WANTED TO SEE WHAT THE STATUS WAS IN SOUTHERN ARIZONA.

WERE THERE HOSPITALS AT RISK FOR CLOSING THEIR LAND UNITS?

AND THEN NOT TOO LONG AFTER THAT, I MET DOCTOR ERIN MCMAHON AT A RURAL HEALTH CONFERENCE JUST AS SHE WAS GETTING READY TO LAUNCH A NEW NURSE MIDWIFERY PROGRAM AT THE U OF A, SO, AND SOMETHING THAT SHE HAS SAID THAT REALLY STUCK WITH ME WAS THAT BIRTH DOESN'T HAVE TO BE COMPLICATED.

IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE AN EMERGENCY.

SO I WAS REALLY FASCINATED BY THESE CONCERNS ABOUT LAND UNITS CLOSING.

AND THIS WOMAN WHO WAS LIKE REALLY FOCUSED ON THE SOLUTIONS TO, TO FILL THOSE GAPS.

AND YEAH, EXPLORING THAT.

I MET SOME MOTHERS WHO HAVE HAD SOME VERY HARROWING EXPERIENCES, SOME MOTHERS THAT HAVE HAD VERY NORMAL PREGNANCIES.

I THINK IT'S VERY DIFFERENT ACROSS THE BOARD.

YOU TALKED WITH SOME OTHERS ABOUT THEIR SPECIFIC CONCERNS.

LET'S GIVE A LISTEN TO ONE OF THEM.

My OB told me that I needed to see maternal fetal medicine with him, that I was high risk.

The words "MFM" are terrifying as a pregnant mom.

You don't know what they're gonna find, what's going on.

I think what's hard too is you're told that you need to see a specialist and you hope and wish that we could have the resources here so we're not driving so far and trying to figure out our new schedule, especially with multiple children who can watch our children because when you go to Tucson you're not able to take their siblings in with you.

You don't know how long you're there for, whether it's an hour to three hours.

You don't know how long it's gonna take for the appointment and it's a two-hour drive there and a two-hour drive back so financially you're trying to figure out gas as well.

I think that's a downfall for our community.

NOW, THERE ARE A LOT OF ISSUES THERE, RANGING FROM JUST GETTING TO TUCSON TO ALL THE UNKNOWNS CONFRONTING FAMILIES ONCE THEY ARRIVE, AND IT MUST PUT A LOT ON THE MINDS OF THOSE WHOSE CHILDREN ARE THEIR TOP PRIORITY.

YES, ABSOLUTELY.

LOOKING AT ALI JONES, WHO IS ONE OF THE CENTRAL CHARACTERS OF OUR ARIZONA ILLUSTRATED PIECE, SHE WAS PREGNANT IN 2020, AND THAT WAS OBVIOUSLY A VERY CHAOTIC TIME.

AND GETTING HEALTH CARE WAS COMPLICATED.

BUT BECAUSE OF WHEN SHE CONTRACTED COVID AND SHE WAS PREGNANT, SHE WAS AIRLIFTED TO TUCSON AND HAD TO HAVE AN EMERGENCY C-SECTION.

AND SO HER SUBSEQUENT PREGNANCIES SINCE THEN HAVE BEEN DEEMED HIGH RISK BECAUSE OF THAT WHOLE CASE.

AND WHEN YOUR PREGNANCY IS DEEMED HIGH RISK, IN MOST CASES, YOU NEED TO SEE A MATERNAL FETAL MEDICINE SPECIALIST OR MFM.

AND ACROSS THE BOARD, SPECIALISTS ARE TYPICALLY GOING TO BE CONCENTRATED IN URBAN AREAS.

TUCSON AND PHOENIX ALLEYS IN SAFFORD, THAT'S A TWO HOUR DRIVE.

SO SHE WHEN SHE WOULD HAVE TO MAKE THESE APPOINTMENTS, SHE'S HAVING TO THINK ABOUT CHILDCARE, COST OF GAS, KNOWING THAT IT'S GOING TO BE AN ALL DAY TRIP BECAUSE YOU CAN'T BRING YOUR CHILDREN WITH YOU TO THESE APPOINTMENTS AS REPORTERS, A LOT OF US BRING OUR PERSONAL EXPERIENCES TO OUR STORIES AND OUR WORK.

ALISA, YOU ARE A FIRST TIME PARENT AND THERE'S JUST SO MUCH YOU CAN PLAN FOR UNDER ORDINARY CIRCUMSTANCES.

NEVER MIND THE STRESS OF THE HOURS OF TRAVEL AND TRYING TO GET TO A PLACE TO FIND QUALITY CARE.

YEAH, I MEAN, L.

M.

'S STORY WAS REALLY, YOU KNOW, I GUESS LISTENING TO IT AFTER HAVING GIVEN BIRTH TO MY DAUGHTER SIX MONTHS AGO WAS, YEAH, I THINK A DIFFERENT EXPERIENCE JUST BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, I WAS JUST KIND OF THERE.

AND I LIVE IN TUCSON WHERE MY OB WAS LIKE TEN, 15 MINUTES AWAY FROM MY HOUSE.

AND, YOU KNOW, AS YOU GET LATER ON INTO YOUR PREGNANCY, YOU'RE SEEING EVEN AS A, AS A LOW RISK PREGNANCY, YOU'RE SEEING, YOU KNOW, AN OB ONCE A WEEK, MAYBE MORE, YOU KNOW, IF YOU'RE GOING PAST YOUR DUE DATE OR YOU'RE GETTING CLOSER TO YOUR DUE DATE.

AND THERE'S SO MANY QUESTIONS GOING INTO, YOU KNOW, ANY DELIVERY, WHETHER IT'S LOW RISK OR NOT.

AND OF COURSE, EVEN MORE SO WHEN YOU'RE HIGH RISK.

I JUST REALLY STRUCK ME THAT, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE ARE TRAVELING THAT DISTANCE AND EVERYTHING THAT GOES INTO FINDING CHILDCARE FOR, YOU KNOW, AN UNKNOWN PERIOD OF TIME.

YEAH.

WHICH IS REALLY STRIKING.

I MEAN, YOU KNOW, AS A LOW RISK PREGNANCY, AS I GOT CLOSER TO MY DELIVERY DATE, I WOULD SAY LIKE MAYBE 30 WEEKS, I WAS TOLD TO NOT TRAVEL, YOU KNOW, OUTSIDE OF LIKE A TWO HOUR RANGE, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE TRAVELING BACK MIGHT, YOU KNOW, IF YOU'RE, IF YOU'RE HAVING A BABY, YOU MIGHT BE HAVING A BABY SOONER THAN YOU THINK.

AND SO JUST TO PUT THAT INTO PERSPECTIVE, IF THE IDEA THAT YOUR, YOUR CARE IS TWO HOURS AWAY AT, YOU KNOW, REALLY PERSPECTIVE FOR SURE.

AND CAROLINA, YOU'RE ALSO A FIRST TIME PARENT MUCH MORE RECENTLY.

AND, AND THERE'S A WHOLE LOT OF ISSUES THAT YOU THINK ABOUT GOING INTO THOSE CIRCUMSTANCES, SITUATIONS, PART OF THIS.

WELL, MUCH OF IT IS FINANCIAL.

AND THERE'S A QUESTION IN SOME CASES, WHETHER OR NOT YOU CAN GET MATERNAL LEAVE AT YOUR JOB.

AND AND THAT'S AN ISSUE THAT CONFRONTS A LOT OF PEOPLE IN ARIZONA.

YEAH.

SO THE STORY, YOUR STORY REALLY RESONATED WITH ME BECAUSE I HAD A SITUATION WHERE MY PREGNANCY WENT FROM LOW RISK TO EXTREMELY HIGH RISK IN THE SPAN OF FOUR HOURS.

SO IMMEDIATELY AFTER A ROUTINE GROWTH SCAN, I WAS ACTUALLY RUSHED TO GET A C-SECTION BECAUSE I HAD LOW AMNIOTIC FLUID.

THERE WAS RESTRICTED BLOOD FLOW THROUGH THE UMBILICAL CORD, AND MY BABY WAS MEASURING VERY SMALL AND SHE WAS BREECH.

AND SO I WAS SORT OF THROWN IN A SITUATION THAT I DIDN'T ANTICIPATE, WHERE I WAS HAVING TO GO THROUGH A C-SECTION, AND MY BABY WAS GOING TO BE BORN SO EARLY, SHE WOULD HAVE TO SPEND A CONSIDERABLE AMOUNT OF TIME IN THE NICU AND IN THE NICU.

I SAW SO MANY PARENTS FROM RURAL AREAS BECAUSE A LOT OF THE PEOPLE WHO ARE IN SAFFORD, SIERRA VISTA, IF THEY THEIR BABY HAS ISSUES, THEY'RE SENT TO TMC.

SO I SAW THOSE MOMS, I TALKED TO THOSE MOMS, I SAW THE FINANCIAL STRUGGLE, HOW MUCH THEY RELY ON PHILANTHROPIC HELP LIKE THE RONALD MCDONALD HOUSE, SO THAT THEY CAN STAY NEAR THEIR BABIES.

HAVING A BABY IN THE NICU IS RELENTLESS, RELENTLESS, RELENTLESS, LIKE MENTAL TOLL ON YOU.

AS A MOTHER WHO WANTS THE BEST FOR YOUR CHILD, BUT YOU'RE ALSO STRUGGLING WITH YOUR OWN RECOVERY AND THE UNCERTAINTY THAT IS A NICU.

STAY FOR YOUR BABY.

AND THE FINANCIAL CONSIDERATIONS ARE ALSO A HUGE UNKNOWN.

WE MYSELF SIGNED UP FOR A STATE PROGRAM TO HELP MITIGATE SOME OF THE EXPENSES, AND I STILL HAVEN'T GOTTEN THE EXTENT OF THE BILL FOR MY BABY'S NICU STAY.

AND WE'RE ALREADY CLOSE TO THE TENS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS FOR THE BIRTH OF MY DAUGHTER.

YEAH.

SO IT'S EXTREMELY TRYING.

EVEN WHEN YOU ARE WITHIN A REASONABLE DISTANCE TO THE HOSPITAL.

AND IF YOU ADD DISTANCE ON TOP OF THAT, IT IS EXTREMELY, EXTREMELY DIFFICULT.

YEAH.

JUST TO ADD, AT MOUNT GRAHAM REGIONAL MEDICAL CENTER IN SAFFORD, THEY DO NOT HAVE NICU.

THEY HAVE A FULLY FUNCTIONING LABOR AND DELIVERY UNIT.

BUT IF YOU GO INTO LABOR BEFORE 36 WEEKS, YOU'RE AUTOMATICALLY HELICOPTER TRANSFERRED TO TMC.

THAT'S A $65,000 BILL.

TYPICALLY.

YEAH.

AND ALSO, YOU KNOW, TO BRING IT BACK INTO SOME POLITICAL CONTEXT, I MEAN, THE MEDICAID CUTS THAT WE SAW JUST OVER A YEAR AGO, THERE'S PROJECTED FIVE HOSPITAL CLOSURES, I BELIEVE, IN RURAL ARIZONA.

AND WHAT IS THAT GOING TO DO TO, I MEAN, WHO HOW MANY MORE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO NEED TO BE LIFEFLIGHTED FROM THEIR, YOU KNOW, REMOTE RESIDENCIES TO THESE MAJOR METROPOLITAN AREAS WHERE THERE'S STILL HOSPITALS THAT ARE ABLE TO CONTINUE TO FUNCTION?

YEAH.

IT'S SORRY.

NO.

GO AHEAD.

I JUST THINK IT'S SO I'M SURE YOU CAN RELATE.

SHOCKING.

LIKE WHEN YOU'RE IN THE MIDDLE OF, YOU KNOW, BEING CLOSE TO DELIVERING YOUR BABY OR YOU'RE IN LABOR, LIKE IT'S SO THERE'S SO MANY THINGS RUNNING THROUGH YOUR MIND.

LIKE HOW IS IT GOING TO LOOK?

WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN?

WHAT'S, YOU KNOW, THE LAST THING YOU'RE REALLY THINKING ABOUT IS, AM I GOING TO NEED TO GET ON TO A HELICOPTER AND BE AIRLIFTED TO A DIFFERENT FACILITY?

BUT GO AHEAD.

SORRY.

NO.

AND IT'S LIKE THE LOGISTICS OF IT ARE EXTREMELY LIKE DIFFICULT.

I EVEN, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE HAVE TO BE TRANSFERRED OUT OF THE NICU IN TUCSON TO GO TO PHOENIX, FOR EXAMPLE, LIKE BABIES HAVE TO THE LOGISTICS OF TRANSFER, TRANSPORTING A VULNERABLE BABY, A MEDICALLY FRAGILE BABY FROM PLACE TO PLACE IS EXTREME, BOTH IN TERMS OF THE EQUIPMENT NEEDED, BUT ALSO THE HEALTH OF THE CHILD ITSELF.

IT'S JUST A REALLY DIFFICULT SITUATION TO BE IN.

AND IF YOU'RE A MOTHER WHO JUST HAD A C-SECTION, FOR EXAMPLE, YOU'RE LIMITED IN YOUR ABILITIES.

I CAN'T IMAGINE A MOM WHO LIVES TWO HOURS AWAY WHOSE BABY HAD TO BE HELICOPTERED TO A NICU, THEN HAVING TO FIGURE OUT YOUR OWN TRAVEL BECAUSE YOU CAN'T DRIVE.

YOU'RE NOT MEDICALLY CLEARED TO DRIVE FOR TWO WEEKS AFTER YOU GIVE BIRTH OR AFTER YOU HAVE A C-SECTION.

BUT THE ONLY THING YOU WANT IS TO BE NEAR A BABY.

AND AND ON TOP OF THAT, RIGHT, YOU HAVE THAT'S THE SHORT TERM, YOU KNOW, LIKE THE SHORT TERM CONSEQUENCES OF THAT SITUATION.

THERE'S LONG TERM CONSEQUENCES TO LIKE, WHAT IS YOUR SUCCESS BREASTFEEDING?

WHAT IS YOUR SUCCESS?

BONDING WITH YOUR BABY, POSTPARTUM DEPRESSION, POSTPARTUM ANXIETY.

I'M SURE ALL OF THESE FACTORS PLAY INTO THE WELL-BEING OF THE MOTHER AND THE ENTIRE FAMILY UNIT.

WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT THESE SITUATIONS, THERE'S ALWAYS ALREADY SO MANY BARRIERS TO ACCESS MENTAL HEALTH RESOURCES.

I MEAN, IN TUCSON, BUT PARTICULARLY IN RURAL AREAS.

SO FOR POSTPARTUM MENTAL HEALTH, THAT'S YEAH, IT'S ANOTHER CHALLENGE.

YEAH.

ALL RIGHT.

AGAIN, YOU'RE WITH THE PRESS ROOM ON AZPM NEWS.

AND LET'S REINTRODUCE OUR GUESTS, L. M. BOYD FROM AZPM NEWS, JOHN WASHINGTON FROM LOOKOUT, ALISA REZNICK FROM KJZZ NEWS AND CAROLINA CUELLAR FROM AZ LUMINARIA.

NOW LET'S TALK ABOUT IMMIGRANT FAMILIES AND WHAT THEY'RE GOING THROUGH.

AND THAT'S ALSO A STORY.

ALISA, YOU'VE BEEN COVERING SOME CASES WHERE IMMIGRATIONS AND CUSTOMS ENFORCEMENT CONTINUES TO SPLIT UP FAMILIES AND PUSH DEPORTATION.

ONE STORY WAS ABOUT A TUCSON MOM WHO WAS DEPORTED TO AN AFRICAN COUNTRY WHERE SHE HAD NO TIES AT ALL.

TELL ME A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT STORY.

YEAH, I MEAN, I COVER A LOT OF STORIES ABOUT DEPORTATIONS AND ICE DETENTION, AND THIS ONE REALLY STILL SHOCKED ME BECAUSE OF A COUPLE OF THINGS.

FIRST IS JUST THE LENGTH OF TIME THIS WOMAN WAS IN THE U.S.

SHE'S BEEN HERE SINCE 2001.

THE VAST MAJORITY OF THAT HAS BEEN IN TUCSON.

SHE HAS THREE CHILDREN WHO ARE U.S.

CITIZENS WHO LIVE IN TUCSON, AND SHE ORIGINALLY HAD ASYLUM.

AND THEN THAT WAS APPEALED IN 2010.

AND IN 2016, SHE GOT WHAT'S CALLED WHAT'S CALLED WITHHOLDING OF REMOVAL, WHICH IS KIND OF A FUNNY STATUS THAT WE HEAR A LOT ABOUT.

IT MEANS THAT YOU CAN'T BE SENT BACK TO A SPECIFIC COUNTRY, USUALLY YOUR HOME COUNTRY, BECAUSE OF A SPECIFIC THREAT THAT YOU'LL FACE THERE.

SOMETIMES PEOPLE WHO ARE MEMBERS OF THE LGBTQ COMMUNITY GET THIS OR GET THIS PROTECTION, OR PEOPLE WHO, YOU KNOW, MAYBE WERE POLITICALLY ACTIVE AND ARE NOW, YOU KNOW, CONSIDERED ENEMIES OF, OF THAT PARTICULAR STATE.

SO THIS WOMAN HAD WITHHOLDING OF REMOVAL AND SHE COULD NOT BE SENT BACK TO HER HOME COUNTRY, WHICH IS ZIMBABWE, BUT SHE COULDN'T TECHNICALLY BE DEPORTED ELSEWHERE.

NOW, PRIOR TO THIS YEAR, THAT PRETTY MUCH NEVER HAPPENED, ESPECIALLY WITH SOMEONE WITH THIS BACKGROUND LIKE RHODA.

SHE HAS NO CRIMINAL HISTORY.

SHE WAS NOT IN DETENTION.

SHE HAD A WORK PERMIT, HAS A WORK PERMIT THAT'S VALID UNTIL 2029.

EVEN SO, SHE WAS PICKED UP BY ICE ON AUGUST 14TH AT HER NURSING HOME SHIFT.

SHE'S A CERTIFIED NURSING ASSISTANT.

AND THEN LESS THAN A WEEK LATER, SHE WAS FLOWN, WELL, ESSENTIALLY TRANSFERRED TO THREE DIFFERENT STATES.

I MEAN, SORRY, SHE WAS IN THREE DIFFERENT STATES AND THEN FLOWN TO LOUISIANA AND THEN FLOWN TO CAMEROON, WHERE AGAIN, SHE HAS NO TIES.

AND THE SPEED AT WHICH THIS HAPPENED WAS REALLY SORT OF SHOCKING, VERY SHOCKING.

I MEAN, WE'VE HEARD A COUPLE OF OTHER CASES.

WE HAVE, YOU KNOW, OUR COLLEAGUE EMILY BREGEL AT THE TUCSON DAILY STAR HAS BEEN COVERING THE STORY OF ANOTHER PHOENIX MAN WHO WAS SENT TO EQUATORIAL GUINEA.

SO, YOU KNOW, I THINK WE'VE HEARD THESE STORIES BEFORE, BUT LIKE I SAID, FOR ME, JUST THE SPEED THAT THIS HAPPENED AND THE ABILITY, THE NON ABILITY, I SHOULD SAY, FOR HER FAMILY TO GET IN TOUCH WITH HER, TO KNOW WHERE SHE WAS AND TO EVEN KNOW WHAT HAPPENED.

I MEAN, HER 15 YEAR OLD DAUGHTER, WHO I SPOKE TO HERE IN TUCSON, SHE, YOU KNOW, ESSENTIALLY DIDN'T KNOW WHERE HER MOM WAS UNTIL SHE WAS IN CAMEROON.

AND BY THEN, YOU KNOW, LAWYERS TELL ME IT'S REALLY DIFFICULT TO KIND OF LIKE, BRING SOMEONE BACK FROM THAT SITUATION.

I'VE TALKED TO ATTORNEYS WHO SPECIALIZE IN THIS, WHAT IS CALLED THIRD COUNTRY DEPORTATIONS.

THIS HAS HAPPENED TO MORE THAN 25,000 PEOPLE, AND IT'S THROUGH DEALS WITH OVER 30 DIFFERENT NATIONS THAT THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION HAS, YOU KNOW, MADE THESE KIND OF CLANDESTINE DEALS WITH.

AND SO, SO FAR, NOBODY HAS, TO MY KNOWLEDGE, SUCCESSFULLY COME BACK.

THE THERE HAVE BEEN SOME EFFORTS TO BRING PEOPLE BACK.

THERE'S ALSO A CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT THAT WILL BE BEFORE THE SUPREME COURT AT THE END OF THIS YEAR.

BUT RIGHT NOW, FOR PEOPLE, INDIVIDUALS LIKE RHODA, THEY CAN KIND OF JUST THEY JUST HAVE TO KIND OF WAIT FOR NOW.

AND THAT'S WHAT'S REALLY FRUSTRATING.

YEAH.

JOHN.

YEAH.

YOU KNOW, THE USE OF SPEED, I THINK REALLY CUTS BOTH WAYS.

IT'S SOMETHING THAT THE DHS REALLY TRIES TO JUST MOVE PEOPLE AROUND VERY QUICKLY.

YOU SEE IT BOTH WITH TRYING TO GET PEOPLE OUT OF THE COUNTRY.

THERE'S A COUPLE OF CASES IN THE PAST YEAR AND A HALF.

I'M THINKING OF SOME WITNESSES TO WHAT WAS RULED A HOMICIDE IN THE DETENTION CAMP.

EAST CAMP, MONTANA.

GERARDO LUNAS CAMPOS WAS KILLED THERE.

AND THE WITNESSES TO THAT DEATH WERE VERY SWIFTLY DEPORTED.

WE SEE SOMETIMES JURISDICTIONAL MOVING WHERE PEOPLE SUCH AS MAHMOUD KHALIL, HE WAS ORIGINALLY ARRESTED IN NEW YORK, AND DHS TRIED TO GET HIM OUT AND INTO GEORGIA AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE SO THAT THERE'D BE POTENTIALLY A MORE FAVORABLE JUDGE TO RULE IN HIS CASE.

AND YET THE OTHER WAY IS THAT THEY ARE WILLING DHS IS OFTEN VERY WILLING TO WAIT OUT PEOPLE'S CASES TO APPEAL, AS IN THIS CASE, OR TO JUST LET PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, LANGUISH IN THESE DETENTION CAMPS SO THAT THEY EVENTUALLY, SOME OF THEM LOSE HOPE OR JUST CAN'T HANDLE THE CONDITIONS ANYMORE.

AND SIGNED VOLUNTARY DEPORTATIONS.

I THINK ONE OTHER THING ABOUT CAMEROON, I MEAN, CONSIDER THE CONDITIONS THERE.

I MEAN, I'VE COVERED PEOPLE BEING DEPORTED TO CAMEROON BEFORE.

THEY HAD BEEN UNDERGOING A CAMPAIGN OF ETHNIC CLEANSING.

THERE'S A HUGE FIGHT BETWEEN ANGLOPHONE AND FRANCOPHONE POPULATIONS, AND THERE HAS BEEN EXTREME VIOLENCE SINCE A RECENT ELECTION.

SO ESPECIALLY FOR SOMEONE WHO HAS NO TIES THEY'RE FACING, SHE'S FACING VERY REAL DANGER RIGHT NOW.

AND ANOTHER THING TO NOTE ABOUT HER SITUATION AND THE SITUATION OF MANY PEOPLE THAT GET SENT TO THESE THIRD COUNTRIES, THEY DON'T HAVE ANY WAY, IN MANY CASES TO GO ANYWHERE.

YOU KNOW, THERE IS THIS CONCERN WITH REFOULEMENT, WHICH IS A TERM FOR WHEN SOMEBODY GETS RETURNED TO THE HARM THAT THEY FACED IN A IN A PLACE, BECAUSE SOME OF THESE THIRD COUNTRIES ARE SENDING PEOPLE TO BACK TO THEIR HOME COUNTRIES ANYWAY, EVEN THOUGH THEY HAVE COURT ORDERS IN THE U.S.

THAT FORBID THAT.

BUT THE OTHER ISSUE IS THAT A LOT OF THESE PEOPLE, INCLUDING RHODA, DO NOT EVEN HAVE TRAVEL DOCUMENTS.

SHE DOES NOT HAVE AN ID, SHE DOESN'T HAVE A PASSPORT.

SHE CAN'T GO TO AN EMBASSY AND GET THOSE THINGS.

EVEN IF SHE DID WANT TO GO BACK HOME, WHICH SHE DOESN'T BECAUSE THE THREAT SHE FACED ARE STILL THERE.

SO THEY REALLY JUST GET THROWN INTO A SITUATION WHERE THEY ACTUALLY HAVE NO WAY TO DO ANYTHING.

I MEAN, I TALKED TO A CAMEROONIAN LAWYER WHO'S WORKING WITH SOME OF THESE PEOPLE TO, YOU KNOW, TRY TO PLACE THEM AND HELP THEM UNDERSTAND WHAT'S GOING ON.

AND HE'S HAD TROUBLE GETTING A CHANCE TO ENTER THE HOTEL TO TALK TO PEOPLE.

YOU KNOW, THEY'RE TECHNICALLY AT A HOTEL.

BUT AS HE SAYS, YOU KNOW, IT'S A SORT OF INDIVIDUAL DETENTION IS WHAT HE CALLED IT.

THEY'RE SIMPLY NOT FREE.

LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT THE CHANCES OF THINGS CHANGING FOR FAMILIES AT LARGE REGARDING THIS KIND OF SITUATION.

CAROLINA, YOU LOOKED INTO THE PROCESS FIRST TIME IMMIGRANT VOTERS.

I WENT THROUGH TO CAST A BALLOT IN THE MIDTERM ELECTIONS.

SO I SPOKE WITH FAMILIES WHO HAD A PERMANENT LEGAL STATUS BUT WERE MOBILIZED TO BECOME CITIZENS BECAUSE OF THE SITUATION WITH DEPORTATIONS IN THE COUNTRY.

UNDER THE CURRENT POLITICAL CLIMATE, THEY FELT LIKE THEY WERE AT RISK AND THEY WERE A LONG TIME.

RESIDENTS OF THE UNITED STATES HAVE THEIR ENTIRE FAMILIES SET UP HERE.

JUST NEVER, YOU KNOW, PULLED THE TRIGGER ON ACTUALLY BECOMING CITIZENS.

BUT LIKE SITUATIONS LIKE THE ONE THAT ALISA REPORTED ON BECOMING MORE AND MORE FREQUENT HAVE SCARED PEOPLE INTO BECOMING CITIZENS.

AND A LOT OF THE ISSUES THAT MOBILIZE THEM TO BECOME CITIZENS ARE SOME OF THE ISSUES THAT INFLUENCED THEIR VOTE AND THE OUTCOMES OF THE ELECTION.

AND SO I AND MY CO-REPORTER SPOKE TO A FEW PEOPLE WHO DECIDED TO MAKE THAT MOVE AND TALK TO THEM ABOUT THE ELECTIONS AND THE OUTCOMES OF THE ELECTIONS.

AND I THINK, WELL, THEY DIDN'T EXPLICITLY SAY CHILD CARE WAS LIKE A BIG MOTIVATOR FOR THEM.

IT DEFINITELY ECONOMIC AND NOT JUST ECONOMIC FOR THEMSELVES, BUT FOR THEIR COMMUNITY.

THERE'S NO LONGER, IT SEEMS, LIKE PROTECTION FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE TAXPAYING, YOU KNOW, TAXPAYING RESIDENTS, EVEN IF THEY'RE NOT CITIZENS, TAXPAYERS WHO WORK IN DIFFERENT FIELDS, LIKE FIELDS THAT ARE SHORT ON WORKERS, LIKE ELDERLY CARE.

AND THERE'S JUST NO SAFETY IN IT ANYMORE.

AND SO THEY FEEL LIKE THEY HAVE TO BECOME CITIZENS TO VOTE FOR THEMSELVES AND ALSO FOR THEIR COMMUNITY MEMBERS AND FOR THE ECONOMIC WELL-BEING OF THEM.

WELL, JOHN, BIG CHANGE IN THE STATE LEGISLATURE AFTER THE MIDTERM ELECTIONS.

ARIZONA, NOW WITH DEMOCRATIC LEADERSHIP IN BOTH HOUSES, WE KNOW AFFORDABILITY IS AT THE TOP OF THE ISSUE.

WHAT ABOUT MIGRANT FAMILIES AND THEIR CONCERNS?

YEAH.

SO, I MEAN, GOING BACK TO YOUR YOUR PREVIOUS QUESTION, I THINK, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A CONCEPT OF GOVERNING THROUGH APPROPRIATIONS.

AND I THINK THAT NATIONAL SCALE, IT'S GOING TO BE VERY DIFFICULT FOR ANY ACTUAL IMMIGRATION LAWS TO BE PASSED AND SIGNED.

YOU KNOW, TRUMP HAS HIS VETO SHARPIE READY AT THE RESOLUTE DESK.

WE'RE PROBABLY WHATEVER THE DEMOCRATS SEND HIM.

BUT THERE IS POTENTIALLY SOME HOPE.

I MEAN, GOVERNMENT FUNDING RUNS OUT DECEMBER 11TH, I BELIEVE, AND THEY'RE GOING TO NEED TO PASS A NEW FUNDING BILL.

AND WITH THE DEMOCRATIC MAJORITY NOW IN BOTH CHAMBERS, I THINK THAT WE COULD SEE SOME RESTORATION OF THINGS LIKE SERVICES FOR MIGRANT CHILDREN, FOR OVERSIGHT AROUND IMMIGRATION DETENTION.

THAT'S AT THE NATIONAL LEVEL, MORE LOCALLY AT THE STATE LEVEL.

HERE.

I'VE BEEN TALKING TO LAWMAKERS, YOU KNOW, THE BOTH THE HOUSE MAJORITY SPEAKER AND THE SENATE MAJORITY SPEAKER, RIGHT NOW, THEY ARE TAKING VERY SERIOUSLY HOW TO POTENTIALLY ENACT SOME LAWS THAT WOULD REALLY LIMIT IMMIGRATION DETENTION TO MAYBE POTENTIALLY REPEAL THE NOTORIOUS SB 1070, THE 2010 LAW THAT HAS BEEN ON THE BOOKS IN SOME DEGREE OR SOME PART PARTIALLY ON THE BOOKS FOR 16 YEARS.

SO I THINK THERE IS A POTENTIAL FOR A REAL SHAKEUP IN TERMS OF IMMIGRATION AT THE STATE LEVEL.

ON THE CONGRESSIONAL LEVEL, YOU COVERED JOANNA MENDOZA'S CAMPAIGN AND HER ELECTION LAST WEEK.

I ASKED HER, WHAT ARE YOUR TOP PRIORITIES?

AND SHE MENTIONED REVERSING MEDICAID CUTS.

AND I ASKED HER, WELL, WHAT'S THE WHAT'S THE FEASIBLE PATH FORWARD FOR THAT?

BECAUSE WE STILL HAVE PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP IN THE WHITE HOUSE.

AND SHE SAID SHE'S OPTIMISTIC.

I WILL SAY THAT I HAD THAT CONVERSATION WITH HER BEFORE PRESIDENT TRUMP PICKED HIS NEW CHIEF OF STAFF.

SO WE'LL SEE IF SHE STILL HAS THAT OPTIMISM.

BUT I'M REMINDED OF OVER THE SUMMER, I ONE OF MY TRIPS TO SAFFORD, I VISITED MOUNT GRAHAM HOSPITAL WHEN SENATOR RUBEN GALLEGO WAS ALSO VISITING, AND ONE OF THE PROMINENT CONVERSATIONS WAS THE THE CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER SAYING, IF THERE'S ONE THING I CAN RELAY TO YOU.

SENATOR, IT'S.

PLEASE REVERSE THESE MEDICAID CUTS BECAUSE I'M NOT SURE IF THIS HOSPITAL WILL BE OPERABLE BY 2030.

SO IT IS IT'S DEFINITELY SOMETHING THAT'S BEING ECHOED TO CONGRESSMAN AND JOHN.

WHAT ABOUT THE NATIONAL LEVEL?

WE MENTIONED STEPHEN MILLER, THE NEW CHIEF OF STAFF.

PRESIDENT TRUMP WAS MAKING SOME CLAIMS ABOUT POTENTIAL DEALS.

BUT WHAT'S THE FUTURE HOLD?

WELL, YOU KNOW, STEPHEN MILLER IS BY FAR THE MOST IDEOLOGICALLY DIEHARD MEMBER OF THE CABINET.

AND HE HAS BEEN ABSOLUTELY PRESSING THE ISSUE AND TRYING TO DEPORT AS MANY PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE.

AND, YOU KNOW, SINCE BEFORE HE, YOU KNOW, ROSE TO HIS POSITION OF POWER RIGHT NOW.

AND I THINK THAT PLACEMENT OF HIM AS WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF REALLY UNDERMINES ANYTHING TRUMP IS SAYING.

THAT SOUNDS EVEN REMOTELY CONCILIATORY.

WE, YOU KNOW, DHS HAS ALL OF THE MONEY THAT THEY NEED TO SPEND TO CONTINUE TO ENACT THEIR ANTI-IMMIGRANT AGENDA.

AND, YOU KNOW, I'M REMINDED OF WHEN THE OUTGOING TRUMP FIRST TRUMP ADMINISTRATION WAS JUST LEAVING OFFICE AND THEY WERE, YOU KNOW, STILL BULLDOZING MILES OF BORDER WALL, TRYING TO ERECT EVERY SINGLE LAST PANEL THAT THEY COULD.

AND THEY, YOU KNOW, THROWING EVERYTHING AT THE WALL AS THEY WERE LEAVING OFFICE.

I EXPECT SOMETHING SIMILAR IN THE REMAINING TWO YEARS, ESPECIALLY UNDER STEPHEN MILLER'S RULE.

ALL RIGHT.

LET'S TAKE A LOOK AHEAD AT SOME STORIES THAT YOU'LL BE COVERING IN THE NEXT FEW WEEKS AHEAD.

JOHN, LET'S START WITH YOU, BECAUSE YOU'VE BEEN LOOKING INTO AN UPDATE ON WHAT'S HAPPENING WITH THE TOWN OF MARANA AND A POTENTIAL NEW ICE DETENTION FACILITY.

THAT'S RIGHT.

SO WE BROKE A STORY A COUPLE OF MONTHS AGO AT THIS POINT ABOUT SOME REALLY DISTURBING ALLEGATIONS OF SEXUAL ABUSE INSIDE THE FORMER MARANA PRISON.

AND THAT IS A PRISON THAT IS AIMED TO BE RE-OUTFITTED AS AN ICE DETENTION CAMP IN COMING WEEKS.

AND WE NOW KNOW THAT THE TOWN OF MARANA IS ASKING MTC, THE COMPANY THAT USED TO RUN IT AND IS SET TO RUN IT AGAIN FOR MORE INFORMATION TO SEE TO TRY TO SQUARE THE POTENTIAL, THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN WHAT THEY REPORTED AND WHAT THE INVESTIGATION SHOWED INSIDE THE FACILITY.

ALL RIGHT, ALISA, WHAT STORY ARE YOU YOU HAVE COMING UP?

I MEAN, YOU KNOW, I THINK WE'RE LOOKING FORWARD.

THERE'S SO MANY QUESTIONS.

LIKE JOHN SAID, THERE WAS THIS MASSIVE BLUE WAVE, BOTH THE STATE LEVEL, THE FEDERAL LEVEL, BUT ICE, DHS AS A WHOLE, THEY STILL HAVE THAT MONEY.

AND SO IT'S GOING TO BE A QUESTION OF KIND OF WHAT WHAT ARE THESE BIG PROJECTS LOOK LIKE?

WHAT IS THE OPPOSITION LOOK LIKE?

THE MANY OF THESE CHANGES.

WE'VE ALREADY SEEN.

CAROLINA, IN A FEW WORDS.

WHAT DO YOU HAVE COMING UP?

YEAH, I'M LOOKING MORE AT THE LOCAL LEVEL.

WE HAVE A NEW COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR THAT'S GOING TO START EARLY NEXT YEAR.

WE'RE LOOKING AT TO SEE WHAT WE'RE LOOKING TO SEE WHAT THE TERMS OF HIS NEW CONTRACT ARE GOING TO BE, AND THAT'S GOING TO BE DISCUSSED LATER THIS MONTH.

I'M ALSO WORKING ON SOME ENVIRONMENTAL STORIES WITH PUBLIC LISTENING, A PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD GOING ON RIGHT NOW FOR A WATER DECONTAMINATION PLANT ON AIR FORCE PLANT 44, WHICH ISN'T ON THE AIR FORCE BASE, BUT IS A SITE THAT HAS PFAS CONTAMINATION DETECTION.

AND WE'RE IN SORT OF A PERIOD OF TIME WHERE PEOPLE WHO ARE AFFECTED BY THAT CAN GIVE THEIR COMMENT.

SO WE HAVE THAT STORY COMING UP, AND WE'RE GOING TO BE FOLLOWING THAT AS WELL.

OKAY.

L. M., WHAT ABOUT YOU?

WELL, I HAVE MY THREE PART PODCAST SERIES THAT WILL BE AVAILABLE NOVEMBER 13TH.

AND THE ARIZONA ILLUSTRATED SEGMENT AIRS NOVEMBER 22ND.

AND THEN I WILL BE TAKING SOME PTO.

BUT WHEN I COME BACK, I AM REALLY CURIOUS TO LOOK AT WHERE RURAL HEALTH TRANSFORMATION FUNDS ENDED UP GOING.

ALL RIGHT.

FANTASTIC.

THAT'LL DO IT FOR THE PRESSROOM.

THANKS FOR BEING WITH US.

WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.

RIGHT.

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This has been an original production of AZPM News.

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