The following is an AZPM original production.

From the radio studios of AZPM, welcome to this special edition of The Press Room.

I'm Steve Goldstein.

Coming up with the holiday season upon us and many Southern Arizonans in need of housing, food and other basic necessities we're taking a look at the resources and services available in our community.

That's coming up next on The Press Room.

♪ UPBEAT BRASS MUSIC ♪ Welcome to The Press Room.

I'm Steve Goldstein.

As the holidays approach, more of our hearts and minds turn toward helping our neighbors and other community members who are in need.

So for this edition of the program, we're welcoming guests who are involved in performing those kinds of services every day.

Our guests today are Jenifer Darland with the Pima County Office of Housing Opportunities and Homeless Solutions, Bruce Beikman, Communications Director of Gospel Rescue Mission, and Tisha Tallman, CEO of the Primavera Foundation.

Thank you all for joining us today.

- Thank you.

- Thank you.

I want to begin with having each of you explain what your organization or agency does.

So Tisha, let me start with you.

How did Primavera get started?

What are the aims of the group?

Yeah, so we started 43 years ago.

We've been working in and with community in the greater Tucson area, and we've since expanded quite a bit.

So we started as a soup kitchen and then a men's shelter.

And now we do everything from outreach in encampments and on the streets for our unhoused community, transportation services.

We have three shelters.

We also do wraparound support services for individuals, transitional housing, safe and affordable housing, all the way up to home ownership for first time home buyers and financial education.

We also have workforce development, and we also serve our veteran population with the supported services contract with the VA for Southern Arizona.

Well, I'm going to come back to you on a lot of those topics, but we'll let Bruce chime in now.

Bruce, give us a brief history of Gospel Rescue Mission and what you guys are trying to accomplish there.

Sure.

So Gospel Rescue Mission has been in here in Tucson for the last 72 years.

The last six we've spent on the campus of what used to be the Holiday Inn Holidome.

For those Tucsonans that are growing up and living here, you know where that is and which has allowed us to expand our services.

Right.

So we're a program based mission shelter, right?

It's not about just a bed, a meal and a shower.

But if you're staying there long term out of the 360 guests that are staying there right now, you're either participating in a 12 month addiction recovery program, a housing program, or a workforce training program, right?

To take people from homeless to wholeness, trying to walk them through a total transformation so they can go back out on the street and be productive.

Okay.

And Jenifer, I think based on the title of the agency, people can guess, but give us some specifics as to what you're trying to accomplish.

What are some of the things that a government agency has to deal with?

Sure.

Thank you for that question.

So Pima County has for decades provided programming aligned with serving our community members who are vulnerable or at risk of homelessness.

We've worked in partnership with agencies like Primavera Gospel Rescue Mission.

But in December of 2023, the county administrator determined that it was really important to put a specific role and with a chief responsibility for providing information on what that county programming is, right?

To help facilitate, again, centralizing that information associated with programming such as rent utility assistance, home repair, weatherization, workforce, as well as what the county is doing right now, which is a substantial investment over the next 10 years.

And developing housing that's affordable for households, earning at or below 80% of the area median income.

Big picture question for all of you, Tisha.

I want to start with you.

I want to say it was pre-pandemic.

And I recall hearing members of Arizona's congressional delegation and congressional delegations from all across the country, right and left, who were very much focused on somehow not solving homelessness, much focused on somehow not solving homelessness, I guess.

Maybe that's too big a goal, but improving the situation.

And we were hearing that over and over and over again.

I know we're hearing it to some extent now.

Was there a time where it did seem like there were more advancements ready to be made?

And was there any momentum lost to some extent?

And has that made some of the job of a place like Primavera a little bit harder?

Yes, yes.

I completely agree.

So during the pandemic, of course, we tried some innovative things and they worked.

But the problem was, is the funding didn't last.

So, you know, post pandemic, there has been a drop off.

We're finding the effects of all of the moratoriums that were put in place to keep people where they were in their homes.

And after all that funding went away, some of those folks did lose their homes.

We had extended some benefits in very unique ways that assisted folks during that period of time.

But again, as the money ran out and dropped off, we're no longer supported.

We're no longer a priority.

We found more people entering the unhoused community.

Bruce, what about you?

Yeah, so I've only been here in Tucson for the last three years.

We moved here from Indianapolis.

The CEO, Lisa Chastain, reached out to me to be a part of that amazing work that they do there.

And it's been life changing for me for sure.

But what I do know is when the pandemic hit, you know, they had just moved on the property in June of 19.

And then eight months later, bam, you know, the world stopped as we knew it, right?

And, you know, they were at full capacity at that point.

So and not up to speed with the staff that they needed, right?

They went from this very small place on 28th Street to this massive, you know, eight acre campus, right?

So they were everybody was working 12 hour days.

And so what it kind of it was kind of a blessing for GRM at the time.

They went to 50 percent capacity and allowed them to catch their breath and reorganize our programs to better be able to serve the population.

So from a financial standpoint, you know, Gospel Rescue Mission doesn't receive any federal grants or funding.

So we're 100 percent privately funded.

So that just kind of continued as it does today.

So we're you know, it's kind of allowed us to join arms with other people that maybe have lost some funding to offer our services and to be there for the community in those ways, too.

Okay, Jenifer let me ask you as far as the challenges with a government agency, there did seem to be a little bit more momentum for that.

But as there is, whether it's from grants or from the federal government or the state or the county, when when it feels like it's a priority, then more money is going to be committed to it.

And then, as Tisha mentioned, sometimes that goes away.

What have the challenges been for you as far as trying to solve some of these problems, make them a little bit less daunting and yet realize that there is a reality of frankly, there needs to be some government funding for this kind of thing.

It can't just be organic.

Right.

So as Tisha commented, when when we had the pandemic, it was a lot of a lot of federal resources that came into our community with a lot of flexibility.

And that is something that our community desperately needed then.

And I would argue that in some cases, it's what we're going to need going forward.

But that crisis really forced a lot of collaboration that hadn't existed before.

We worked in a really dynamic way, working with our partners at Gospel Rescue Mission, as well as with Primavera, on strategies to address unsheltered populations and to also decongregate those congregate settings to keep folks safely sheltered and also prevent any un, you know, the spread of the virus.

Right.

But we worked really well.

We had ongoing communication.

We had resources available to shelter folks.

And as that wound down, we had resources to rehouse individuals.

But as is previously stated, when those funders those funds were fully expended, we were back with the same formula funding with the same limitations that really lowered the ability to be responsive, to lean into the need, as we saw demonstrated and respond with heart and urgency for folks who are always going to be one paycheck away from finding themselves in an unhoused situation.

Well, I wonder if there are obviously best practices out there, as I'm sure the organizations are all trying to do.

Is there a situation where it becomes that much harder because there needs to be collaboration?

We obviously recently experienced government shutdown, which is affecting things as well.

At what point does it feel like these collaborations are as productive as they can be?

And at what point is it that there need to be, frankly, a long way to rephrase a question.

How innovative are things out there to help the unhoused population and other people who have needs?

I think because the housing crisis in the country has become so enormous, and we're no exception, that people are looking for innovative strategies.

They are looking for people to try things that haven't been tried before and trying to move the needle on poverty in the unhoused community.

But it's going to take a cross-sector collaborative.

And I truly believe we all have been moving towards that because we do feel another crunch, a lot of uncertainty.

So with that comes an increased desire and kind of an interest conversion from all of us in wanting to come to solutions from a cross-sector.

And working, all of us working together, will definitely create solutions where we may not have been driven to that before.

So I certainly see that happening.

We too receive private donations in addition to government funding.

So while our participants are impacted by some of what goes on when funding goes away or gets decreased, we too have somewhat of the liberty to be able to do some of those innovative things.

But I think what's been percolating most is not servicing or bandaid.

It's looking for some true solutions where we can get folks out of their current situation and move them to where they want to be upward economic mobility.

Let me ask the innovation question.

Jenifer, you first.

So during the crisis, we actually use that as an opportunity to really examine what is a priority for our local region, right?

So the Board of Supervisors adopted what is called the Prosperity Initiative, which are 13 tactics that align with interrupting poverty and putting households on the path to generational prosperity.

Also born out of the pandemic was the Emergency Eviction Legal Services Program, once funded by America Rescue Act funds, now funded by the County General Fund.

This is about strategic placement of free legal representation at the time when housing and homelessness begin.

When homelessness begins is at point of eviction, right?

So we're interrupting it during that court process.

We're taking them into a transitional housing or transitional bridge program, and we're bridging them back into apartments or housing that they can afford, right?

So we're interrupting homelessness at the time it happens.

And again, as the pandemic was resolving, we were charged, the county was charged with going back and revisiting what we did back in the day when we had bonds that funded affordable housing development, right?

And so what that led to were a series of recommendations that informed the Board policy that now will guide 10 years of funding investment for affordable housing development and preservation, which will go a long way to preserving housing for individua who are always going to be right there.

And part of that policy also provides programming over funds for the next 10 years to keep people housed.

And so this, again, the lessons were learned, the tea leaves were there for us to read during the crisis and the Board acted and solidified those programs and policy.

So Bruce, GRM innovations, but also you mentioned you came from Indianapolis.

Are there things that groups like yours, groups like Pimavera can learn from other places around the country?

Oh, absolutely.

For sure.

I mean, there's a large mission in Indianapolis where I'm from called Wheeler Mission, which has about 100 more employees than we do.

And their services are a little bit different than ours.

You know, they're kind of sprawled out in multiple places throughout the city.

Indianapolis is a little larger and a little bit more dense.

You know, I think you brought up collaboration, both of you did.

And not to get away from what you're asking, but the collaboration is what drives our campus, what we do at Gospel Rescue Mission for a lot of reasons.

I mean, you know, the programs that we provide, because if you're staying there, you are a part of a program.

And if we, you know, we have about 50 plus collaborative partnerships there on the campus.

And, you know, those services are what, you know, we got El Rio on campus, Pima Community College, Development of Economic Services.

So it's kind of a one-stop shop and it's, you know, I don't want to just talk about Gospel Rescue Mission, but collaboration, you know, we can all pull together.

And it's something I've seen as of late for us.

We've been able to join forces with the city of Tucson.

We've started an outreach called Operation Rescue now where we're actually, who sings that song, taking it to the streets.

So now we're taking it to the parks, we're taking it to the washes and the other places in downtown and collaborating with the city, right?

And with our mobile units.

And, you know, I think what I love about Tucson, it's an amazing, giving city.

I'm an emotional guy, so I got to watch myself or I'll start crying.

But I love that about Tucson.

We're so, everybody's so giving.

I think everybody wants to work together.

I think we're just all so busy with what we're doing.

We've got to be really focused on making that happen.

Bruce, that's one of the questions that actually was on my list to ask about.

Jenifer, let me start with you on this.

Does a community have to be, I mean, I would think that most communities think that their communities are generous.

But is Tucson, is Pima County a place that where hearts are as big as they are in the other place to try to find solutions to this sort of thing?

Absolutely.

I would say that one of the, to your point, one of the best blessings about our community is we are the biggest small town I've ever lived in.

You can't run into a room or a meeting without running into one another and or knowing of one another's work in this space.

We are great when it comes to the tactical response for vulnerable and homeless populations.

And we have a very generous region throughout the community.

Yes, absolutely.

Yeah.

Tisha, let me ask you this I want to ask a follow up to, which is people who are watching or listening to us, they know what homeless means.

They know what unhoused means.

But I wonder if, can we get into a little bit sort of a definition of something they may not think of if they're lumping all unhoused or homeless people in one sort of pile?

What are some, what's something that people should be thinking about more when they think about the unhoused?

I think one, one myth in particular that that always astounds people when we're out speaking is that most of our participants have income.

So it's some type of income, but it's not enough income to sustain everything, including a home.

And when we think of a home, there are all sorts of expenses that come with having a home as well.

So there are choices being made by individuals who don't have enough to sustain themselves.

So one of the, for that very reason, we have a mailbox center.

We serve over 2,000 individuals who receive their mail because they need to receive their checks.

And if you don't have an address, you can't receive income.

And then you can't get into various places either if you don't have an address.

I mean, even an address for identification purposes, if you don't have identification, then you're not able to even get into a shelter and access all these other services.

So there are points at which I don't think it comes to an individual's mind that the person that they see or encounter in our community who is unhoused, they may have an income and they're just struggling.

Bruce, what would you say about that?

Because I think there's also the perception.

No one thinks it's 100 percent, but a lot of people think, oh, massive percentage are drug abusers, for example.

And certainly there are some.

But what's a misperception or something that comes to mind for you?

Yeah, I, you know, look, homelessness is a messy business, right?

You know, a lot of people say, you know, I don't know how to get involved in that, but I'll give to it, right?

So our population that we serve, and I'm sure you both see the same thing, is, you know, not everybody staying at Gospel Rescue Mission is there to take part in the 12-month addiction recovery program.

But the majority of the people who do come to us were in some form or manner, shape or form, manner, were involved in some type of drug addiction, which caused their life to spiral out of control.

But there's a lot of reasons for homelessness, right?

You know, so when we turn our lights on in the morning and out in the parking lot, there could be, you know, Jimmy wants to come in just because he's tired of living on a street.

He just lost his job and he just lost the will to fight it anymore and set up our front door.

And we're going to put him in workforce development.

Mom shows up who has a job and has been living out of her car with two little children and she needs housing.

We got to get those kids off the street, right?

And she can go to her job.

Just things got out of control and she lost her place to live.

And so now she can save her money, right?

And we can take care of those children while she's working.

And then Jimmy, who has an addiction problem, whose life spiraled out of control, can get the help that he needs.

And I think there's a lot of misconceptions.

I think people are tired of, you know, why we passed the proposition laws that you can't panhandle anymore.

Well, they still do, you know, go up and down Speedway, right?

And, you know, I think for the work we're in, it's easy for us to go and we just want to get out of the car and we want to go help them.

And I think a lot of people driving up and down those streets, it's difficult for them to have that view.

It's hard for them to see past.

Why don't you just go get a job?

Why don't you just seek help?

Because a lot of people, they don't, their mind is gone.

They don't know how to seek help.

And that's why I think more collaboration sitting around a big table like this, you know, could cause more ways and more opportunities for us to, you know, take care of that homeless crisis that we're facing here in Tucson.

Jenifer, I'm not sure the answers were already taken, but I'm sure you've worked in this field.

So something else that might come to mind that when people think about either solving the problem or when they think about people who are homeless that they don't necessarily understand what comes to mind for you.

So it's all of it, right?

The human condition is complex and we can't necessarily through a programmatic lens solve for what is trauma, abuse, neglect.

We also know that homelessness is an economic factor.

So as Tisha mentioned, you can have people who are experiencing homelessness, but it's economic homelessness, meaning that they're doubled up with family members or friends.

And now we have one individual who is experiencing homelessness and we have at risk now of being homeless.

Other people who they're staying with, right?

In case it's a breach of their lease agreement.

And yes, mental health challenges are substantial.

Addiction is a very serious issue.

And I know from our own efforts and working collaboration right without reach and with the city of Tucson, we know that there are individuals who appear to be experiencing homelessness and are not.

Right.

And so we are we're co mingling a crisis at the same time.

And so we have to be able to take a bifurcated strategy when we're engaging with vulnerable population populations and meet them where they are to determine what the best, the next best decision is that an option for them.

Right.

But it is very complicated.

I often am asked, like, what is it?

And it's not a black or white response.

It's very complicated.

And that means that our strategies just have to be that much more dynamic and leaning into solutions.

Tisha are we going to see even as there's more devotion organizations to to do more and to help people who are in need and get them back on their feet to actually whether it's because they're under employed or they're having family issues, whatever it is.

Can progress be made at a time when affordable housing is difficult for people who have almost a middle class income as in Tucson and other areas of Arizona, prices go up.

How much of a challenge is that when you feel like you're making progress, but then everything it seems is getting more expensive, especially housing.

It is it is challenging and it has become increasingly more challenging, especially as we face uncertainty with funding sources and such.

And we also know that we have an aging population.

So a lot of our donors are aging out of giving, which is a huge impediment.

But I think one important point to make is that we all and you know, at least with my work with Primavera and what we've experienced over 43 years is that community is so incredibly important.

It's the key, right?

So if someone was evicted or someone has an addiction or someone lost their job, that person might necessarily, you know, might not be unhoused.

What's what for what reason?

Because they know someone, right?

They have community network.

They have community contacts.

They have family.

They have friends.

There was a survey that was done with 400 unhoused individuals and 40 percent said that there is not one person that they could go to for assistance, not one person.

We also know the U.S.

Surgeon General came out with loneliness as an epidemic.

And we know that that has horrible outcomes, including being unhoused.

So we if we know that it's a community issue at the core, then making those connections and creating community, bringing people in.

Right.

So the first inclination for an unhoused member is to push them out, push them out through ordinances, push them out through, you know, a whole host of things.

But we actually need to be pulling them in because pulling them in will assist in us finding community for them, providing with the supports they need to get where they need to get economically.

OK, that's such a great point.

We only have a couple of minutes left.

So I want to switch to something because the holidays are approaching.

And that is a time when people get more things in the mail and they're reminded to help out organizations.

But part of this conversation I wanted to get to again, just a couple of minutes left.

And Bruce, let me start with you on this fairly briefly, please.

How do you how do you get it so so people, even if they have open hearts, they actually are thinking about whether it's with volunteering or with giving a check or something.

How do you get people to think about these issues on a more regular basis?

Because it's great that people open their hearts and their wallets Thanksgiving and Christmas.

But what about the rest of the year?

You know, I think for us, it's your message.

You got to be very clear in your message.

Right.

And that's why we use social media.

It's why we use radio and TV.

Your message has to be really precise and consistent.

And how you get that message out to the people.

They'll respond.

You just have to be very clear in your message.

OK.

Jenifer, what comes to mind for you?

Well, working for the county, not in the fundraising capacity.

Absolutely very different.

No, but just in terms of what thinking about how people react.

For sure.

I agree.

The more you can be clear with your message, the more that you can tell the story to connect the dot about the value of community.

I think, again, we all have someone in our family, right?

If we haven't experienced it ourselves, where we have been financially in a dire situation.

So I think it's about the message and it's about making, bringing to life that story and that picture of what that experience looks like is one way where it's hard to deny how important it is to make an investment in our community strategies for folks.

Tisha you get the last word about 45 seconds or so?

I would say community.

I would say community, Steve.

Because I actually believe that if each of us understands that we're one piece of a larger community.

And that every piece is so incredibly important.

If we have most of our neighbors struggling, we're going to struggle.

So just, you know, that idea that we're all in this together.

Tucson knows this.

Tucson is an amazing giving community.

And we all know that our struggling neighbor is our struggling neighbor.

They're still our neighbor.

And now's the time that we need to pull folks in.

So I think, you know, like PBS and supporting PBS, I mean, I think it's really an easy sell because this is us.

Well, that's what I liked about all of your answers about what people don't think about when they think about homeless people.

I think it's important to realize that they are members of the community.

There aren't just people we necessarily drive past.

Thank you all so much for the conversation.

Tisha Tallman, the CEO of the Primavera Foundation.

Jenifer Darland is with the Pima County Office of Housing Opportunities and Homeless Solutions.

Bruce Beikman, Communications Director of Gospel Rescue Mission.

Thank you all for this important conversation.

Appreciate your time.

Thank you, Steve.

Thank you.

That's all for this edition of The Press Room.

We're back with a new episode next week.

Thanks so much for tuning in.

I'm Steve Goldstein.

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