The following is an original production of AZPM News.

If I had all the answers, I'd love to share them.

But I think it's about having someone that believes in you that can kind of help hold up that mirror and say, "You are worthy, you are valuable," and keep just encouraging them to keep pushing on.

This is Speaking Personally, filmed on location at the Paul and Alice Baker Center for Public Media.

Welcome and thanks for being here.

I'm Tom McNamara, and joining me today is the CEO of TEP Tucson Electric Power, Susan Gray.

Susan, thank you so much for coming in and joining us and sharing your life and your successes, which is what we're here to do.

We really appreciate it.

Absolutely.

Thank you for having me.

Before we talk about how you managed to just rise through life and career as successfully as you've done, it's been wonderful.

Let's talk about the early days.

Young girl growing up in Northern California, and there was a quote in an article that I love that you were quoted as saying, "I grew up with people pouring confidence into me."

What's that like?

Yeah, my parents were amazing.

They really convinced me I could do whatever I wanted to do.

I had no inhibitions really.

They maybe tried to shape where I was headed, but just really, I was a swimmer, and they were like, "Oh, you probably make the Olympics."

(laughs) Okay.

And just kind of sky's the limit on whatever you want to try.

I'm sure you'll be successful, and we're here to support you to do it.

Did you believe that right away, or did it take you a while to believe what they were telling you?

I would say I believed it because it started before I could really think about it.

And then as you get older, you start to question, but yeah, from the beginning, I was like, "I'm supergirl."

So what about this girl growing up in Northern California?

What were your dreams, and what did you want to be early on?

So as young as I can remember, I wanted to be a mechanic.

A car mechanic?

Yeah, and I would walk around with my dad's screwdriver and say, "I thick it," because I couldn't say fix.

So as I continued to tell my parents I wanted to be a mechanic, they were like, "Or maybe a doctor."

Kind of the same concept, just a different body that you're working on.

You thick it as a doctor.

Yeah, I'll thick the body instead of a-- Right, so yeah, so by the time I was in high school, I was pretty sure I wanted to be a doctor, but probably shaped by my parents.

And you took your California confidence and once upon a time came to Arizona.

You came here to attend the U of A, and with that same confidence, you walked into a swim team, not just any swim team, but the U of A swim team, a national, call it world-class college swim team, as a walk-on, that takes a lot of confidence.

Yeah, it was an incredible experience.

I was in Frank Bush's first recruiting class, and of course then he went on to coach multiple Olympic teams and a national championship, and just a really, really neat guy.

So I was really fortunate to be part of that program, and established my friend group on campus from day one.

So really, really incredible experience.

And how'd you do with the swimming up against all these superstars?

Yeah, I swam between two Olympians in my exact race.

So Chrissy Ammon-Laton swam the 100th fly in the 92 Olympics, Amy Van Dyken swam the 100th fly in the 96 Olympics, had a silver medalist and a gold medalist.

I was a fan on the team.

Like it was just really, really inspiring to be around them and to see how they train and get to try to keep up, but I was out of my league.

Aren't you a footnote credited with inspiring them to Olympic greatness?

Oh, I'm sure, yeah.

Yeah, you came here with the intention of being a biomedical engineer.

Tell me about that.

Why biomedical?

Yeah, well actually, growing up, thought I would be a surgeon, wanted to be an orthopedic surgeon.

And after the first couple years of college, it was like, gosh, medical school feels a long ways off.

And decided to switch to something in engineering and biomedical was kind of that great combo.

And so that's what I decided to pursue.

And then kind of to do biomedical engineering back then, you had to have an undergraduate degree in either electrical or computer engineering.

So I chose electrical thinking I was gonna go on and get my master's in biomedical engineering.

Does the confidence you cultivated as a kid with help from your family and the athletics, the nerve, the confidence to walk on to U of A swimming, did that help with the academic success and discovery in your life?

Yeah, I think so.

I mean, you have to have confidence.

I was one of three girls in my graduating class.

So just to kind of be different than the other kids in the class.

You know, math is challenging and you kind of have to go into it thinking you're going to solve that problem.

I think a lot of kids these days don't do well in math because they lose that confidence somewhere along the way.

And then, you know, just kind of that work ethic that I really built up through swimming my whole life.

You know, what you say is so true.

I remember, you know, personally, if you let math and science bully you at a young age, you're done and you're going through school, oh, now here comes another required math or science course, I'm doomed.

You didn't let things bully you, did you, in any direction?

No, in fact, and we have two kids who are now in their 20s and it was outlawed in our house to say you didn't like math or that you weren't good at math because I think my husband grew up that way and was, you know, really bullied by math and he ended up getting an A in calculus in college.

So everyone can do it if they put their heart and mind to it.

So yeah, we just wanted to encourage our kids and not let them feel like it was a challenge they couldn't meet.

The year was 1994 and you, this is the beginning of not to use a cliche, but breaking that glass ceiling with a hard hat.

You walked into TEP in 94 for an internship.

Your world and your life, your career certainly changed.

Yeah.

Tell us about that.

Yeah, I just wanted to stay in Tucson for the summer.

Okay.

I was looking for, you know, just a summer job and my dad's like, hey, why don't you check out Tucson Electric Power?

And a friend of his worked at the company and so, you know, just, oh yeah, go see if there were any openings and sure enough, got an interview and was invited to stay for the summer.

And then that just kind of kept, I at one point was the only intern in the company.

They let all the interns go and for whatever reason, I got to stay.

And look what happened.

You were the daughter and the granddaughter of two electric utility engineers.

What role did that play, if any?

Yeah, and so growing up, like I had no interest in doing that.

You know, watching my dad come home with paperwork didn't look exciting.

Yeah.

But I didn't really understand it either.

And so then once I actually got to experience it and be in the office, be out in the field and see how important that work is and that it is more dynamic than my dad made it look, right, coming home with his homework at night.

I just fell in love with the people and was really interested in the overall industry.

Yeah, what was it about that year of 94 that really triggered that had you pursue this with all of your heart and soul?

Was it wattage?

Was it, you know, wires?

You know, I mean, what changed?

What caught your attention and just set you free into that realm?

Yeah, my first project actually, I ended up doing for my senior project for the university was to forecast how does weather impact how much power we use on our grid?

That was not a new problem.

I wasn't solving something new, but we were using a new software system to do that.

And so kind of tweaking that model to get it to a place where it was accurately forecasting, even, you know, in the summer, it's really easy to say when it's super hot, it's gonna, we're gonna use a lot of power, but kind of those shoulder months are a little more challenging.

And I think I was just kind of captured by, oh, okay, this is something that I can do and I enjoy the people I'm doing it with.

And I just wanna take that further.

And you did, did Tucson keep you here?

Did the job keep you here or a little bit of both all these years?

I married a Tucson boy.

Yeah, right.

And his whole family is here.

But I just love it.

I love the mountains, I like to hike.

I love to be warm.

I call it warm.

I don't like to be cold.

And I like that it's a college town.

I like that it's kind of a big little city, right?

You know everybody in town and it just feels right for me.

You proved that back in 94, you like to be warm.

I wanted to stay in Tucson for the summer.

Not a lot of people would say that, you know, certainly after a number of years here.

But we stay and we survive and we make the best of it.

From 94 then, you just have a track record, a resume that is so admirable and awe inspiring.

TEP, you love them, they loved you back and you've risen through the ranks.

You were once known as the girl at TEP.

What was it like being the girl?

Yeah, so I was invited by the Vice President of Operations after I finished my MBA at University of Arizona.

Hey, will you come do a six month rotation in operations?

And I was like, yeah, that sounds interesting.

And after six months, I begged him to let me stay.

I just love the work, I love the people.

So here I am with all these linemen, you know, all the folks that work out in the field are mostly men.

And they started calling me the girl because I was the only female supervisor in that group.

But I loved it, I loved being a little bit different, bringing a unique skill set as an engineer.

I was always happy to do the spreadsheet that nobody else wanted to do.

(Tom) Oh yeah.

And I just, I really, I love learning.

And so being out in the field and asking these guys who have done this work for years and years to understand why do you do it that way and show me what you're doing and teach me your craft, it's fascinating.

And there's no doubt, you know, just looking at your track record, you paid your dues.

You know, do you really feel like you maybe broke any glass ceilings wearing a hard hat in the course of your career at TEP?

Yeah, I mean, it's an interesting concept.

You know, I definitely, I'm the first female president at the company, was the first chief operating officer at the company.

But I guess it was so gradual, it didn't necessarily feel like this big breaking of a ceiling, but more, you know, that, I guess, you know, I had a supervisor that used to say, just be the obvious choice.

When that next position comes open, be the one that they would, could not pass up, right?

And so I just continued along the, sort of that obvious path and built relationships along the way and tried to establish myself as being a leader that people would respect and want to follow.

And it seems like you've done it all so relaxed.

Just almost matter of fact, you know, looking from the outside in at you, I get that impression.

So my husband calls me the duck.

(Tom) The duck?

Because I'm super chill on the outside and inside I'm doing this, right?

I'm under the water working hard.

But I don't, yeah, it's just how I come out, I guess.

So what do you do now to, you know, if your inside is a little more wound up than the outside, how do you deal with the stresses, the demands that are ceaseless in your case?

Such a big job.

Yeah, I mean, any CEO is gonna face a lot of stress and long hours, long days, a lot of travel.

For me, it's kind of, I have this foundation of family, faith and fitness.

So my family is so important to me.

I mentioned my two kids and my husband.

For me, defining success means not just that I'm thriving and finding success in my career, but that we're all thriving.

And so we're really careful to make sure that everybody has the attention they need, at the time they need it, and that we're all cheering for each other to be successful.

Faith is a big part of who I am and keeps me grounded, in addition to my kids keeping me grounded.

And then fitness, you know, it's just a way to kind of let off steam, to just kind of, you know, turn your brain off and just focus on doing something hard for an hour.

And so I try to start my days that way.

And that's a real skill too, being able to do that, to step away, to turn your brain off and just, you know, live life, isn't it?

That's a tough one.

Yeah, and I'd say it's a learned skill.

I haven't always been able to do it.

What was it like the day, the moment, the time you became the CEO now, just the enormity of the responsibility and the weight on your shoulders all of a sudden?

Yeah, and remember it was January of 2021.

So we're in the middle of COVID.

I've been president for a year, so I got to take a baby step towards this, but yeah, it felt like a huge weight.

If you don't feel that weight, you don't recognize what the job is.

You know, I'm responsible for the grid in Southern Arizona.

And so we've got to make sure that we're performing at an exceptional level every hour of every day.

And I also just feel responsible for all of my employees, the community that we serve.

Like, that is, you know, it's a big responsibility and day one, it felt enormous.

Five years in, I feel a little more comfortable with it, but it's still, you know, it's not lost on me.

And I'm really just honored and humbled that I've been given this opportunity to do it.

And you've really taken that opportunity.

You've bought into Tucson 110%.

You're a Tucson girl now, through and through.

Yep, been here longer than I was ever in California.

So this is my home.

Yeah.

And I'll be here forever.

What tugs at your heart the most?

Is it the desert vibe?

I know you don't like to be cold.

Is it the heat?

Is it the vibe here with what's going on all the time?

The university, is it everything that just has you hooked to Tucson?

Yeah, I think it's, it's a little bit of everything.

Growing up in Northern California, it's a bit of a rat race, right?

And so it's more relaxed here.

You can't be out on the trail and not have five people say good morning to you, right?

California, they'll just pass you by.

But everyone's so friendly here.

And a lot of people that live in Tucson have been here a long time and feel connected to the city and the community.

And I love the mountains.

I mentioned the heat, but I'm also a huge Wildcat fan.

So we're involved in attending as many sports as we can.

And yeah, I think my love for Tucson and my husband's love for Tucson has been passed on to our kids who have chosen to stay here too.

One of your hallmarks as CEO is you love collaboration.

You like innovation.

You like everyone's involvement, everyone's successes.

You've stated, are you seeing that in Tucson or how are you helping to bring that mindset to the community at large now?

Yeah, not just in this role as the CEO of Tucson Electric, but I'm also the chair of the Chamber of Southern Arizona.

And we're focused primarily on economic development.

And I think it's really important for this community to continue to thrive for us to continue to grow.

We have to bring in new tax base and new jobs for all of the kids that wanna stay here as well.

And so it's that right balance of, it's not just growth for growth's sake, it's growth that's going to make our community better.

And so I get to wear a couple of hats as I try to influence that and really be mindful about, as a leader of Tucson Electric Power, are we have to serve the growth that comes.

Any customer that comes to our service territory, we are required to serve them, but let's do it in a responsible way.

Let's make sure that that growth pays for itself.

So we say growth pays for growth.

Let's make sure that we're doing it in a way that maintains the reliability of the grid.

That's our number one concern, safety, reliable, and affordability.

So we're top decile in the country in terms of our performance for reliability.

I'm really proud of that.

Especially coming from the operations background, right?

So we keep the lights on way better than most utilities do in our country.

And we're gonna make sure we keep doing that even as we grow.

And then we care about sustainability and that's an important, I think, the Tucson community is really environmentally minded.

We wanna make sure that we're partners in that and that we're doing it in a way that we're reducing our carbon emissions and we're responsible in how we treat our environment.

You raise good points.

For years, we've been a town where, ah, my kids don't wanna stay.

And I can speak personally to that.

Not all my kids are here anymore.

Do you think we've turned the corner now doing the right things to where kids, including your kids who are young now, high school age, but to where they will wanna stay?

Are we on the righteous path finally?

I think we're a work in progress.

I think that there's some sparks of really good things that are happening in our community.

And I think we can even continue to work more closely together.

Bringing in business leaders, nonprofit organizations, government leaders to really be aligned and work together towards a common goal.

I think we could be even better.

You come from such a solid, confident background.

If there's anything you could say to your younger self, what would that be?

You don't have all the answers.

I'm pretty sure my parents have told me that.

Still do.

But I think I turned a corner, to use your phrasing, at some point, probably in my 30s, where I realized, oh, it's actually, I don't have to be the smartest person in the room.

I'm not the smartest person in the room.

And it's actually better to surround yourself with people that are all equally smarter, or more smart than you.

Because I really believe, and I finally kind of experience, that we come up with better solutions when we collaborate, when we have diverse perspectives, and we're bringing all of that to solving the problem together.

I didn't start that way.

And so if I could have told my younger self to do that sooner, I think I would have gotten a lot further.

What are some of the non-negotiables in your personal and professional life?

For me, success is about my whole family thriving.

So just not going to compromise that.

And my job takes a lot of time, but I'm not gonna miss the big family event.

I'm gonna be there for my kids when they need me to be there.

You know, faith, I think that in any kind of leadership role, your integrity can be challenged.

There is no job that's worth sacrificing the honesty and integrity that I bring.

That's a core value for me, and I'm just not willing to compromise on that.

And that's great.

Yeah, that's always good to hear.

And that really does propel you through this life, doesn't it?

Yeah, I mean, if you're gonna switch jobs every five years, you might be able to get away with it.

But to say at a company for 29 years, it's gonna catch up with you if you haven't been honest and been a person that people can respect for your entire career.

And you're trying to help generations behind you reach their fulfillment and their happiness in life.

You're a big proponent of women in STEM, women in leadership and all.

How are you going about that and making yourself as a model of success and solidity known to all these young women out there?

You know, I'm so fortunate to have had some really great mentors, both female and male mentors in my life.

And I feel like it's my responsibility to do the same.

And so I'm always mentoring some young folks, whether they're male or female, I do tend to narrow in on young people who are focused in the STEM areas, just to try to encourage them.

It's challenging, right?

It's hard work to do a degree in a STEM area.

And just to encourage them to tell my story.

I was scared one day too, thinking, oh, what am I gonna do with this degree?

Do I really know enough to be effective?

And so just to kind of walk alongside, kids as they're kind of early in their, still in school or early in their career.

And then to me too, investing in women is important because not everyone has had the same experience that I've had.

I had some great mentors.

I had some people within the company who saw something in me and were willing to be that trusted advisor for me.

And I wanna do that personally as I invest in women that I mentor, but also more collectively.

So we've started a women in energy group at Tucson Electric.

It's been around for over 10 years, but I got to co-found it.

I co-founded it with our CFO, who was a man.

And because I think it's important for men to support women in their leadership development as well.

And then I kind of participate in more broad programs that work to develop women as well.

As the father of three women, I just think they're facing a lot more these days.

Obstacles, challenges, society's snark.

I think, I guess I'm saying, I think they have it worse, tougher than we had it.

Now I'm a few clips ahead of you age-wise, but I mean, before the generations colored by social media and just the world kind of closing in on them in many directions from many different sources like social media, I just think they have it tougher now.

What's your read on that?

I mean, young people in general, I think their confidence is challenged by what they hear and see on social media.

Kids attacking other kids.

It's just, that's terrible.

But I think young girls take that to heart and can really let it shatter their confidence.

And so if I had all the answers, I'd love to share them.

But I think it's about having someone that you can, that believes in you that can kind of help hold up that mirror and say, you are worthy, you are valuable and keep just encouraging them to keep pushing on.

Like, not everybody has a champion in their life and sometimes you have to get that through programs like I'm involved in the Boys and Girls Club or things like that.

Just looking for those girls that made me need a little encouragement.

Yeah, is there anything that seems to speak to them, especially these days?

What we have found at TEP is kind of showing women that are doing it now.

So when we have a construction career fair, we make sure we have women in hard hats out there, not just men.

And I think that it just, it helps them visualize, oh, there's a woman doing that job, right?

And so just, you know, just bringing out those role models for girls to see, I think is important.

You're the CEO now, but what's the best job you've had at TEP in your career?

What was the most fun?

What was the one that you just loved?

I will say I probably love this one the most because it's the most diverse and I get to do something new and different every day.

But it was really fun when I was a leader in our line construction group, being out in the middle of a storm, poles are on the ground, right?

It's mayhem.

And then just kind of figuring out, okay, how do we attack this problem and stand up all night and being in the trenches with the folks that are really doing the work, making sure that they have what they need.

It always brought me a sense of pride, you know, to see those lights go back on and to know that we did that.

Right?

I got to be part of that.

That was a really fun time in my career.

Yeah, I can imagine.

I guess the road best traveled is that road where you have done it all on your way up.

Yeah, I mean, when I first started in leadership, it was kind of like, why is this girl our boss?

Like, what does she know, right?

And so it does bring credibility when you've done some of the jobs along the way.

And then just building that network of, and when people stay at Tucson Electric their whole lives.

Right?

We know what's happening with our kids and we've done life together.

What would you like to leave behind for that day when you're no longer heading up to E.P.?

Yeah, I mean, I want to leave this world better than it started, right?

And so I hope that I've made lasting impacts on people because of my personal interactions with them.

But when I think about this responsibility that I have and the opportunity to impact our community, this is about, we talked about kind of that affordability, reliability, that's running the business well.

And I definitely want to make sure I'm doing that.

But I want to make sure that we're serving our customers in a way that we're meeting their needs.

And we have a goal that is every customer can pay their bill.

So a big part of that is doing it in a way that, as cost effectively as we can, I'm really proud that our rates have not exceeded the rate of inflation over a long period of time.

But it's also about kind of, we used to have the slogan, "We're there when you need us."

It's really meeting our customers where they're at.

They have new expectations for technology or how do we make it easy to do business with them?

But then when the storm comes through and they're out of power, we're there to bring them ice.

We're there to make sure that if they're on life support, that we're making sure that they have what they need and checking in because these are our neighbors, right?

We all live in this community.

We care about this community and we want to help our neighbors.

That's the legacy of them.

You still get the urge to grab a hard hat in times of great need and run out there and fix it.

Pick it.

I do, I want to thick it.

They're maybe not as excited for me to show up.

Yeah, right.

Well, Susan Gray, CEO of Tucson Electric Power, thank you so much for sharing your life and your thoughts with us and all the best to you going forward.

Thank you so much, Tom.

Thank you.

And thank you for joining us.

We will see you again next time.

(soft music) (upbeat music)