>> NOW AS A NEW GENERATION COMES OF AGE SO DOES A NEW LEXICON, DESCRIBING PEOPLE OF MIXED WHITE AND ASIAN HERITAGE HAS QUICKLY BECOME A FIXTURE ONLINE.

OPENING UP A WIDER DISCUSSION ABOUT RACE AND IDENTITY IN THE UNITED STATES.

FROM POP STAR OLIVIA RODRIGO TO OLYMPIC FIGURE SKATER ALYSA LUI, THIS ATTENTION CULMINATED IN MEETUPS ACROSS THE UNITED STATES, SPARKING QUESTIONS ABOUT INCLUSION.

A CONTRIBUTOR AT NEW YORK MAGAZINE'S POP CULTURE PUBLICATION VULTURE AND HE JOINS MICHEL MARTIN TO EXPLORE WHAT'S FUELING THE CONVERSATION AROUND THIS TERM.

>> THANKS, CHRISTIANE.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR TALKING WITH US.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

> >> YOU WROTE RECENTLY IN VULTURE ABOUT WHAT YOU CALLED A MASS COMING OF AGE, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE TERM --A GROUP OF PEOPLE WHO ARE CALLED -- SO I NEED TO DEFINE TERMS WHO MAY NOT HAVE HEARD THIS.

WHO ARE WASIANS.

>> AN INTERNET -- IT STARTED IN THE LATE DECADE OF 2019, IT WAS REALLY STARTED PROLIFERATING ON TIKTOK, INSTAGRAM WITH YOUNGER KIDS.

IT MEANS WHITE AND ASIANS.

IT MEANS KIDS WHO ARE MIXED.

HALF WHITE AND HALF ASIAN.

>> YOU WROTE ABOUT THIS BECAUSE THE NUMBERS, ASIAN AMERICANS ARE THE FASTEST GROWING MAJOR RACIAL GROUP IN THE COUNTRY, ABOUT 1 IN 5 IS MULTIRACIAL AND OF THOSE, 82% OF THOSE ARE PART WHITE AND MORE THAN HALF ARE UNDER 25.

COHORT, WITH A BIG INFLUENCE ON YOUTH CULTURE.

>> YES, I THINK THAT'S THE WASIAN MEETUP, THEY WERE HAPPENING ALL AROUND THE COUNTRY.

THERE WAS ONE IN NEW YORK, IN CENTRAL PARK, THAT WAS A MASS CONVENING, THEY WANTED IT TO BE A MASS CONVENING ON SOCIAL MEDIA AND THE LITERAL WORLD, THAT WAS A REAL CULMINATION OF THE KIDS ARE HERE.

>> APPARENTLY, YOUR SOCIAL FEED WAS BLOWING UP, LIKE, WHAT HAPPENED?

>> I WOULD WAKE UP AND I WOULD SEE MY FEED COMPLETELY BLOWN UP WITH THE WASIAN MEETUP.

BASICALLY, IT WAS POWERFUL.

THE INVITE APP FOR YOUR BIRTHDAY OR, YOU KNOW, BABY SHOWER OR WHATEVER, HAS BEEN KIND OF TRYING TO POSITION ITSELF MORE AS A SOCIAL MEDIA APP.

WOULDN'T BE A GOOD IDEA TO HAVE A WASIAN MEETUP?

IN A LOT OF WAYS IT WAS IN THE THINKING OF THE RED HEAD MEETUP.

OR PEOPLE NAMED RYAN.

THINGS LIKE THAT.

THEY HAD MEETUPS IN L. A. , SAN FRANCISCO, BUT THE ONE IN NEW YORK REALLY WAS A MASS CONVERGENCE, THERE WERE OVER 3800 PEOPLE WHO SAID YES TO GOING.

IT'S UNCLEAR OF COURSE EXACTLY HOW MANY ACTUALLY WENT BUT THE SOCIAL MEDIA FLOOD FROM IT AFTERWARDS REALLY DEMONSTRATED THAT IT WAS A LOT OF PEOPLE AND INFLUENCERS, PEOPLE WHO ARE VERY TECH SAVVY ALREADY, THERE WAS ANOTHER LIFE TO THE ACTUAL PHYSICAL MEETUP ONLINE.

>> WHAT'S SO TERRIBLE?

I MEAN -- >> GREAT QUESTION.

IT UPSET A LOT OF PEOPLE.

THERE WERE A LOT OF CRITICS WHO SORT OF WERE ASKING, WHY WASIAN?

WHY NOT MAKE IT MIXED ASIAN.

THE LASTING CRITICISM CAME FROM MIXED ASIANS WHO ARE NOT WHITE.

SAID THIS WAS INCLUSIONARY TO THE MIXED RACE EXPERIENCE OF ASIAN AMERICANS IN THE STATES.

BECAUSE I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO POINT OUT, ASIAN AMERICAN 2 IS ALREADY AN ABSTRACTED CATEGORY.

WHITE ASIAN IS A MISH MASH OF TWO ABSTRACTIONS.

PEOPLE BEGAN TO ASK, WHAT ARE WE CELEBRATING?

THERE'S NO SHARED CULTURAL HERITAGE.

NOT EVERYONE WAS KOREAN.

THAT LED PEOPLE TO TALK ABOUT AESTHETICS AND HOW YOU'RE PERCEIVED IN THE WORLD, THAT REALLY BECAME A POINT OF FIXATION.

>> THE ORGANIZERS ATTACKED?

OR REALLY MAD AT THEM?

WHAT HAPPENED?

>> THEY GOT A LOT OF BLOWBACK, LOT OF PEOPLE CALLED THEM THE MOST EXTREME LANGUAGE WAS CALLING THEM SUBS IES OF THE KK.

PEOPLE ARGUED THEY WERE CELEBRATING THEIR PROXIMITY TO WHITENESS, THAT THERE WAS AN AIR OF SUPERIORITY.

>> WHAT DID THEY SAY ABOUT THAT?

>> YOU KNOW, THESE ARE KIDS.

THEY'RE YOUNG AND THEY'RE LOCKED IN THEIR IDENTITY AND THEY SORT OF EXPERIENCE IT MORE ON THE LEVEL OF THE PERSONAL THAN THE SOCIOLOGICAL IDEA.

THEY DON'T SEE THEMSELVES IN A POLITICAL LINEAGE.

I THINK THEY THINK, WELL, I HAVE A WHITE PARENT AND AN ASIAN PARENT, ISN'T THAT FUNNY, WOULDN'T BE COOL TO HANG OUT?

THEIR REACTION WASN'T UNDERSTANDING WHY PEOPLE WERE MAD AT ME.

>> YOU USED THE PIECE TO TALK ABOUT BIGGER ISSUES, THERE ARE SOME BIGGER ISSUES, LIKE, ONE OF THE THINGS YOU POINTED OUT THERE REALLY HAS BEEN AN EXPLOSION OF WASIAN TALENT ON THE AL SCENE.

OLIVIA RODRIGO, HUDSON WILLIAMS IN HEATED RIVALRY.

THE OTHER THING YOU POINT OUT IS THIS IS A GROUP OF PEOPLE WHO, OFTEN KIND OF EXCLUDED FROM PARTICIPATION IN ENTERTAINMENT MEDIA, YOU'RE NOT WHITE SO YOU'RE NOT LEADING MAN, LEADING WOMAN WORTHY, BUT YOU'RE NOT ASIAN ENOUGH TO BE LIKE THE BEST FRIENDS STEREOTYPE, SO ALL OF A SUDDEN, IT'S KIND OF TURNED ON ITS HEAD.

SAY MORE ABOUT THAT, ABOUT HOW THAT KIND OF --TELL US THAT STORY.

>> YEAH, YEAH.

NO, I MEAN, AND I WANT TO PREFACE THIS BY SAYING, IT CAN VARY VASTLY.

>> YOU MEAN APPEARANCE?

>> APPEARANCE, YES.

YOU KNOW, MIXED PEOPLE CAN LOOK LIKE ASIAN PASSING OR WHITE PASSING AND THAT EXPERIENCE LARGELY DETERMINES --ESPECIALLY IF YOU'RE AN ACTOR IN HOLLYWOOD, VERY LITERAL FENOTYPE WILL DETERMINE WHAT KIND OF JOBS YOU'LL BE SENT OUT FOR, THE POLITICS OF REPRESENTATION IN HOLLYWOOD HAVE VARIED FOR A REALLY LONG TIME.

>> WHAT MADE THAT HAPPEN, BECAUSE I'M THINKING ABOUT CRAZY RICH ASIANS, WHICH WAS A BREAKTHROUGH ON A NUMBER OF LEVELS, AND SORT OF THE LEAD, HENRY GOULDING.

>> WASIAN.

>> SUPERGORGEOUS AND WASIAN.

>> CRAZY RICH ASIANS IS KIND OF INTERESTING BECAUSE HE'S PLAYING A SCION, LIKE A FULL ASIAN CHILD OF CHINESE BILLIONAIRES, YOU KNOW, SO THAT'S AN INTERESTING KIND OF THING THAT'S BEEN HAPPENING PARTICULARLY I THINK WITH LEADING MEN MORE RECENTLY IS THAT ASIAN AMERICAN LEADING MEN PARTICULARLY IN ROMANTIC ROLES TEND TO BY FIND TO BE MIXED WHITE AND ASIAN.

I THINK A LOT OF THEM SORT OF HALF SENSED THIS TILT TOWARDS --THIS PREFERENCE THAT HOLLYWOOD HAS TOWARD MIXED WHITE ASIANS.

AND YOU SEE THAT PARTICULARLY I THINK ON THE MALE ROMANTIC SIDE.

THAT'S SORT OF WHERE -- >> WHY IS THAT?

>> THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.

I THINK SOME PEOPLE THINK THEY QUOTE/UNQUOTE PLAY BETTER TO VARIOUS MARKETS, THAT WHITE AUDIENCES WILL BE ABLE TO SEE THEM AS SEXUAL OR AS MORE MASCULINE BECAUSE I THINK THE GENERAL STEREOTYPE HAS BEEN THAT FULL ASIAN MEN ARE EMASCULATED AND YOU HAVE PART WHITE IN YOU IT SORT OF MAYBE MITIGATES THAT AND THERE'S JUST A LOT OF WORDS THAT PEOPLE USE, RELATABLE, PLATABLE, THAT REALLY SPEAK TO DEEPER IES AROUND RACE.

>> HOLLYWOOD ITSELF IS CONTRACTING, LOT OF ITY INITIATIVES ARE BEING ROLLED BACK, A STUDY AT USC AMONG THE 37 LEADERS OR CO-LEADS OF COLOR IN THE TOP FILMS OF 201910 WERE MULTIRACIAL OR MULTIETHNIC, MORE THAN WERE ASIAN, LATINO OR MIDDLE EASTERN, AND THAT --THOSE ARE HARD FACTS.

>> YEAH, YEAH.

THERE'S A SIMILAR STUDY WITH STREAMING FILMS, THE SECOND LARGEST GROUP BEHIND WHITE PEOPLE AND FULL ASIANS ONLY ACCOUNTED FOR 2%.

SO THAT'S LIKE, YOU KNOW, IT DOESN'T EXAGGERATE THE NUMBERS OF WHAT MULTIRACIAL MEANS.

YOU'RE SEEING A KIND OF, YOU KNOW, A PREFERENCE FOR MIXED ASIANS SPECIFICALLY MIXED WHITE ASIANS AS THE STAND-IN FOR ASIAN OR AS A WAY TO CHECK THE BOX OF DIVERSITY WHO ONE WRITER TOLD ME.

>> THIS LINE GOT MY ATTENTION INCREASINGLY REPRESENTATIONAL POLITICS FEELS LIKE DUSTING LAND THAT HAS BEEN DRIED UP FROM SINGLE CROP FARMING BUT MOMENTS WHERE IT HAS SWAY.

>> IS MY OWN MAYBE DISSATISFACTION WITH REPRESENTATION AS A POLITICS FOR US.

I THINK IT S USHGS UCKS TO BE CLEAR THAT HOLLYWOOD HAS A PREFERENCE FOR INSTANCE, IF THEY'RE NOT HIRING FULL ASIAN ACTORS WHO ARE TALENTED AND CHARISMATIC AND THEY'RE NOT GETTING THE PARTS.

I THINK THAT'S AN OBVIOUS BIAS THAT'S HAPPENING.

REPRESENTATIONAL POLITICS IS NOT WHERE WE SHOULD BE PUTTING OUR ENERGIES TOWARD THINKING ABOUT POLITICAL CHANGE IN THIS COUNTRY.

THAT DOES HAPPEN PARTICULARLY AROUND ASIAN AMERICANS WHERE THEY, I THINK WE FIXATE A LOT ON, ARE WE BEING REPRESENTED IN THIS WAY?

IT'S IMPORTANT FOR US TO FIND POLITICAL SOLIDARITY AROUND ECONOMICS OR YOU KNOW, CLASS, THINGS LIKE THAT ARE ACTUALLY MORE MEANINGFUL OR ARE YOU HEAD OF THE TV SHOW.

>> WHY IS THAT?

IS IT A MARKER OF AFFLUENCE?

ASIAN AMERICANS AS A GROUP ARE OVERINDEXED ON WEALTH AND EDUCATION, IS THIS A SIGN OF PRIVILEGE?

YOU'RE NOT WORRIED ABOUT WHAT SOME PEOPLE ARE WORRIED ABOUT SURVIVAL.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

IT'S A PRIVILEGED CONVERSATION TO BE ABLE TO DO THIS TOP-LEVEL, YOU KNOW, ARE WE REPRESENTED ON THE FORTUNE 500 CEO LIST, YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT'S TO ME MAYBE NOT WHERE WE SHOULD BE THINKING ABOUT WHAT ASIAN AMERICAN MEANS, TAKE IT BACK TO EVEN THE '60s WHEN ASIAN AMERICAN BECAME AN IDENTITY WAS ABOUT SOLIDARITY WITH BLACK POWER, WITH THE ANTI-WAR MOVEMENT AGAINST VIETNAM.

THE THIRD WORLD LIBERATION FRONT.

HOW WE THINK ABOUT OURSELVES IN THE CONTEXT OF THIS GREATER BODY AND FIGHT AND ORGANIZE IN THAT WAY.

IT WAS ABOUT USING ASIAN AMERICAN AS A POLITICAL LEVERAGING TOOL.

WHAT WAS INTERESTING TO ME ABOUT WASIAN IT FELT DEEPLY DEPOLITICIZED.

ANY POLITICS TO IT?

THEY WERE IMMEDIATELY, NO, ABSOLUTELY NOT.

NEVER ON THEIR MIND.

THEY DON'T THINK ABOUT POLITICS AT ALL.

IN FACT, OFTEN QUITE DEPOLITICIZED ON HOW THEY THINK ABOUT ANYTHING, NOT EVEN THEIR IDENTITY BUT CLASS POLITICS WRIT LARGE.

>> THE BASIC QUESTION, DID THEY SEE THE KIND OF THE WASIANNESS BEING CELEBRATED PROXIMITY TO WHITENESS, DID THEY MEAN TO EXCLUDING PEOPLE WHO HAD OTHER MIXTURES, SO WERE THEY -- WAS THE IDEA --WHAT WAS THE IDEA WITH THESE FOLKS?

THEY'LL COME IF THEY WANT TO?

>> YEAH, EVEN THE INVITATION, I GOT INTO THE WEEDS A LITTLE BIT ON THE REPORTING TO FIGURE OUT EXACTLY WHEN THE INVITATION NAME CHANGED.

IT SWITCHED TO MIXED ASIAN MEETUP.

AND THE LANGUAGE OF THE ACTUAL INVITE IS SORT OF, IT'S THE WASIAN MOMENT BUT EVERYONE'S INVITED.

EVERYONE, FULL ASIANS, EVERYONE CAN COME, BUT EVERYONE'S STILL COMING AS AN ASTERISK TO AN ASIAN MOMENT.

I THINK THERE WAS A RECOGNITION AT SOME POINT THAT MAYBE WE NEED TO CHANGE THE LANGUAGE OF THIS.

BUT I REALLY DON'T THINK THEY WERE THINKING ABOUT IT THAT MUCH.

>> WHERE DO YOU THINK THIS GOES FROM HERE.

>> FOR ME, THE CULTURAL DISPHORIAA FEELING YOU'RE FENOTYPE DOESN'T MATCH HOW YOU FEEL INSIDE OR YOUR OWN CULTURAL MORES, THOSE ARE A WAY OF DESCRIBING THE ASIAN AMERICAN EXPERIENCE.

I GREW UP IN FLORIDA.

I HAD KOREAN PARENTS, I WENT TO A WHITE BAPTIST SCHOOL IN THE SOUTH, IT'S A WEIRD WAY TO BE THINKING ABOUT WHO AM, I, AM I TRYING TO ASSIMILATE?

ALL OF THESE QUESTIONS ARE A SHARED PART OF BEING ASIAN AMERICAN, YOU KNOW.

JUST BROADLY.

I THINK IT'S ULTIMATELY IT'S BEEN USEFUL FOR ME TO NOT SOLELY LOCK DOWN INTO ISOLATIONISM, BUT UNDERSTANDING THE WAYS IN WHICH MY IDENTITY INTERSECTS WITH EVERYONE ELSE IN THESE BROADER WAYS AND SORT OF VIEWING IT WITHIN A LARGER SOCIAL STRUCTURE AND TRYING TO MOVE PAST THAT, YOU KNOW, PAST NARCISSISM, I THINK, AND I THINK THAT'S JUST BEING YOUNG, TOO, I HAVE A LOT OF EMPATHY TOO AT THE SAME TIME OF, YOU KNOW, I KNOW WHAT IT'S LIKE TO BE A TEENAGER AND ALL YOU WANT TO DO IS FIT IN.

I GET THAT.

BUT I ALSO THINK THAT THAT'S NOT A AVAILABLE OR USEFUL PLACE TO STAY SO THAT'S SORT OF HOW I WANTED TO END THE PIECE FOR US TO NOT SHAME BUT TO MAYBE OPEN, THE OPEN THE BOX A LITTLE BIT MORE IN TERMS OF, OKAY, THIS HAPPENED.

THE WASIAN MEETUP HAPPENED, BUT HOW CAN WE THINK ABOUT OUR IDENTITIES IN CONCERT WITH OTHER PEOPLE OF COLOR IN A POLITICAL SENSE?

I THINK RACISM IS INHERENTLY POLITICAL IN THIS COUNTRY, I THINK THAT'S THE PIECE I WOULD HOPE TO SEE HAPPEN.

I DON'T KNOW IF IT WILL.

BUT.

>> WHAT KIND OF REACTION DID YOU GET TO THE PIECE?

WHEN I LAST CHECKED YOU HAD LIKE HUNDREDS OF COMMENTS?

WHAT WERE SOME OF THE REACTIONS THAT YOU GOT THAT STOOD OUT TO YOU?

>> I FELT THERE WAS A LARGE GAP BETWEEN PEOPLE WHO WERE REACTING TO THE HEADLINE AND THE PHOTOS THAT WERE CIRCULATING ON SOCIAL MEDIA VERSUS THOSE WHO HAD REALLY TAKEN THE TIME TO READ THE PIECE AND SORT OF UNDERSTAND IT AS A SOCIOLOGICAL MOMENT THAT IT'S HAPPENING IN REAL TIME, SOCIOLOGICAL IDENTITY THAT'S FORMING AND THE PIECE IS REALLY ABOUT LOOKING AT THAT AND ASKING OURSELVES HOW IS IT HAPPENING, WHAT ARE PEOPLE THINKING, HOW ARE THEY DRIVING IDENTITY ONLINE AND IN THE WORLD?

SO THAT'S ULTIMATELY THE TAKEAWAY I HOPE PEOPLE SORT OF HAVE WITH IT.

>> YOU CAPTURED A MOMENT FOR SURE.

>> THANK YOU.

>> ALEX, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR TALKING WITH US.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

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